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Torture of prisoners.....

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    Rachel--

    Please explain to me how the defense that "those above me ordered me to do it" and "it would be to much to prosecute each person involved" of the recent torture situation by the CIA is any different from the same argument Nazi's made after WW2? Please explain to me how sending people to the gas chambers is a much nicer punishment than torture for 12 years. TWELVE PLUS YEARS!
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    All these CIA people are idealy suited for our police forces because of their exellent training; give them some gestapo uniforms and all crime here will disappear!!
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I like to know what the other 900 plus pages of that report says, why just release less than 50% of the report and then draw conclusions from that small amount of information. So the Senator from California is upset about the methods used by the CIA to extract information from suspected terrorists, but not upset about the indiscriminate killing by drones of suspected terrorists with a high probability of collateral civilian deaths, including children, I believe the main reason for Ms. Feinstein's now self-righteous stance against the CIA is the fact that it was revealed that she was spied on by this very Agency. With that being said I will not commit myself to an opinion on whether or not the "torture" methods were effective without knowing the full facts of the report. I will state that I firmly believe that torture is wrong.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    There is NO hope for you, I'm afraid!
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    The irony of the torture concept is intriguing when you compare it to histories conflicts where people opposing each other attempt to extract intelligence. Of course, than there are the movies, "Rambo" (rat cage, electric shocks, sewer, eating garbage), "24" (cutting body parts off, water boarding, electric shocks, fist pummeling, eye gouging, finger nail pulling), all those old WWII Nazi movies (evil experimentations, toxic injections, body part removals, gassing) and many other examples of social entertainment. Is it entertainment when you see it on the TV or at the movie? How about those cartoons, "Tom & Jerry", "Wiley Coyote & Roadrunner", and the new age Sci-FI cartoons have these torture techniques and physical abuse shown to our children?

    We, as a people, are bred for this by media and a desire to extract information. I remember when I was being trained prior to going overseas for Vietnam or any war. All serviceman are taught the basics for if you are captured you are to only divulge specific information. It was so comical to listen to many of us going through that training. Hell, if that torture was going to pull my finger nails out with pliers, I was going to sing like a song bird. To hell with the war, it's me or nobody else, I can't stand the pain. That was than and while I never was a POW, today I hope I would have done the honorable thing if caught, and kept quite while they tortured me. That Geneva convention, don't make me laugh, it doesn't work and never has. Torture will always be around and you would hope that if tortured, your experience would be over quick and as painless as possible. As it is exhibited today, it's not over quick and painless, just sing like a song bird.
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    It is just like ---- "Gee, Daddy, I just butchered the Dog, and fed it to the hamster." Wasn't I a good little boy? Then I shoved a gallon of chili up the rectum of some beggar guy in the alley --- is that all right? And then I tied Tommy, my neighbor, to a furnace & burned his hand off." Please, raise my allowance?

    THIS SHOWS the "psycho Nazi" intellect that has developed among certain "twisted" people out there. And this type of behavior is "encouraged" by some of our intelligence agencies. (They seem to be patterned off of Nazi behaviors from WW-II). Just give them an aspirin, pin a Swastika medal on them, & let them go.

    It just boggles the mind -- it really does. Any "normal" people, would be shocked & horrified by it.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Human nature being what is and not what we hope for, if your beloved family member was being held as a hostage with the threat of imminent death by beheading and the CIA had the person who knew exactly where he was being held and you knew this , what would you have the CIA do to extract that information and save your loved ones life? Went I worked Sex Crimes, the defendant always had to be protected from the family members of the victim, even if he was just a suspect, so yes torture is wrong, but many believe the ends justify the means, this why I want to see the rest of the report, it will not justify the torture just tempers the guilt of knowing of or doing the procedure.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    What some members on this website who are championing torture seem to forget is that we somehow were able to defeat Hitler without torturing the Nazi's, but it's different with 'terrorists' and we must torture them? Torture has proven to not work. Ever. Most of the times it will only get the person who is being tortured to tell the person torturing them exactly what they want to hear instead of what is actually the truth, as is the case with the many 'terrorists' we tortured throughout this dark chapter in our history.

    The saddest part of this very sad story is that we accidentally tortured our own damn informants! What the hell was the CIA thinking? It's like they just swept up whoever they wanted, took em to a black site, and tortured the hell out of them.

    I genuinely don't understand how anyone on this site can say it is fine to 'rectally re-hydrate' a person or to force a person to stand on a broken limb? Or was it acceptable that the CIA froze an inmate to death after stripping him naked, chaining him to a wall in his room, and turning the air down so cold that it killed him? How in the world can you justify that?
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    johnnycee Wrote: Human nature being what is and not what we hope for, if your beloved family member was being held as a hostage with the threat of imminent death by beheading and the CIA had the person who knew exactly where he was being held and you knew this , what would you have the CIA do to extract that information and save your loved ones life? Went I worked Sex Crimes, the defendant always had to be protected from the family members of the victim, even if he was just a suspect, so yes torture is wrong, but many believe the ends justify the means, this why I want to see the rest of the report, it will not justify the torture just tempers the guilt of knowing of or doing the procedure.

    As repub, McCain said....... The whole torture thing was not only wrong but it paid no dividends....... we got little to no info as a result of these tactics. What we need to worry about (for our soldiers) is that you get what you give. It massively increases the odds of our people being tortured down the line.
    I read through several pages of the report and it was disturbing. They said the full report is 6,000+ pages. This is less than 10% of that.
    It will be interesting to see if our embassies or our soldiers become targets for those who want to exact some revenge.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    You do realize that after it was found out the Nazi's executed American POW's at the Battle of the Bulge, that the Americans did the same to German POW's. You and others have to get your head out the sand and see what is and not what you think it should be, every suspected terrorist who was interrogated walked away without any broken bones, loss of eyesight .or hearing, as matter of fact some went right back and played soccer with their fellow detainee's, I can't recall any that walked away from Flight 93 in Pa., or from the Twin Towers in NYC,I know there were survivors from the Pentagon, but many did not make it out there also, this was the mindset of the nation, there was the paranoia of another strike looming, and the mantra became stop them any cost, and any way possible, which included intense interrogation. So now 6 years after this program was stopped, there are now political whores who are now showing horror and indignation over a program that both Democrats and Republicans approved of back in 2001, and also a feigned ignorance of it ever existing at all. Torture is wrong, no doubt about it, but its been done by every nation at one time or the other, and it's still being done now, so spare me the breast beating and platitudes of forgiveness, if someone took any one of my grandchildren , I would personally interrogate them if I knew that they knew where they were, if I broke an arm or a leg , or anything else, so be it, I will leave that for my God to judge me, not a bunch of hypocrites disguised as political leaders.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    johnnycee Wrote: every suspected terrorist who was interrogated walked away without any broken bones, loss of eyesight .or hearing, as matter of fact some went right back and played soccer with their fellow detainee's
    Except for the multiple inmates who were found frozen to death in their cell. So not quite 'every suspected terrorist' walked away...

    Or the ones who were forced to stand on their broken legs for hours on end while chained to a wall. So not quite 'every suspected terrorist' didn't receive any broken bones...

    You seem to be confusing this report with GITMO. This report is about CIA 'black sites'. 'As a matter of fact' there was no soccer fields for them to go play on after their torture concluded. They were sent back to totally black rooms, chained to a wall, stripped naked, and forced to stay awake for days on end.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Tony Johnson Wrote: As repub, McCain said....... The whole torture thing was not only wrong but it paid no dividends....... we got little to no info as a result of these tactics. What we need to worry about (for our soldiers) is that you get what you give. It massively increases the odds of our people being tortured down the line.
    I read through several pages of the report and it was disturbing. They said the full report is 6,000 pages. This is less than 10% of that.
    It will be interesting to see if our embassies or our soldiers become targets for those who want to exact some revenge.
    I don't agree with McCain very often, but he is spot on this time.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    What happened to the original posting that started this thread ? It had a link to McCains speech and a link to the Torture report........
    Was it deleted for any particular reason ?
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I was speaking of GITMO, but as for black sites, without the full report or even the results of the people interviewed for the report is revealed this report is bogus, what was revealed was a bunch of conclusions that we have to accept because the true facts must remain hidden, by releasing only less than 50% of the investigative report leaves to much for conjecture and speculation, and serves only a particular agenda. If these so called horrified people feel this is wrong, but the indiscriminate bombing (drone strikes) of suspected terrorists with the killing of innocent by-standers is okay, then they are nothing more than self-absorbed hypocrites.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Tony Johnson Wrote: What happened to the original posting that started this thread ? It had a link to McCains speech and a link to the Torture report........
    Was it deleted for any particular reason ?
    I'm not seeing this anywhere. It's also not on any of our flagged forums. Let me dig in a little deeper.