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No Indictment in NY

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  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    That was murder. The response from NYPD....."if he only had stop resisting".....How does that not shock me? two hours ago I raised this very topic.
    A man murdered by police over a "street vending citation".....mudered for questioning the authority of an officer forcing him to place his hands behind his back.

    AMC... how do you feel now?
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    The bad guys win again! Doesn't look as if body cameras would be much of a help when the whole event was recorded and they still wouldn't even indict him!
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    pgr Wrote: The bad guys win again! Doesn't look as if body cameras would be much of a help when the whole event was recorded and they still wouldn't even indict him!
    True....Jury's of all sorts consist of retirees and workers that are fully paid for jury duty (from their employer) This is your jury pool.

    The moment the choke hold is applied....poilcy is not utilized, and a man's death occurs....that is subject for a jury to determine. But's it's the same jury pool. This system depends on people not being be able to attend jury duty in that they may be evicted if participating.....Civic duty or homelessness.
    Once again...our fault. Through pressure groups could have changed legislation......we were too busy with Don't ask don't tell, the kardashians, and those wonserful smart phones. America is a joke
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I don't know if this Grand Jury was given options other than first degree murder, such as manslaughter either voluntary or involuntary , or if negligent homicide was also an option, in a Murder indictment ,at least here in Pa. malice must be present as an element of the crime of murder, if that was the only charge in the presentment, then I can understand why the Grand Jury did not present an indictment, however if there were other options such as I described , then I too am mystified.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    There seems to be absolutely nothing that can be done to hold murderous cops accountable in this country. They literally have a different justice system than the rest of us 'regular' people who don't want to get killed by them.

    Chase Madar just penned a great piece in The Nation about the difficulties of indicting cops in America. He explores how the justice system has utterly failed us in ever holding cops who murder people accountable, even if there is video showing a cop choking a guy who is pleading for him to stop. He explains how two Supreme Court cases, Tennessee v. Garner and Graham v. Connor, were meant to reign in police brutality, but were written so poorly that police departments nationwide exploit the vague definition of an 'objectionably reasonable' use of force to make a mockery of the courts and assume a green light to kill anyone with no fear of repercussion.

    The video of an unarmed Garner being placed in an illegal choke hold while pleading for the cops to let him breathe should have been more than enough evidence to warrant a charge, but cops don't get charged for anything in this country anymore. They literally get away with murder on a daily basis with zero chance of ever being disciplined. I ask those who so valiantly stick up for cops how they are ok with this. How in the world can any compassionate person so easily write off the loss of life at the hands of a cop who knows there is literally nothing that will be done to them? How have we allowed this to happen in this country where cops have turned into a paramilitary force that has a license to kill unarmed citizens? It makes me sick.

    I wonder how many more deaths of unarmed citizens it will take before our court system actually recognizes that they are the only entity that can reign in our police. How many more innocent and unarmed people will have to lose their lives before we force cops to change their behavior?
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Probably hundreds of additional deaths. I watched the video tape of this guy being questioned then tackled, choked, and ultimately killed. He didn't seem like he was creating any disturbance at all. Citizens are expendable, there are plenty more out there.......
    I'm sick of it. Around here we have levies on the ballet every few years for police and fire. If countless murders continue, I'll not vote to fund that.

    Third police killing recently, Mr. Garner "I can't breathe, I can't breathe" Anyone surprised in all 3 cases it was a black victim and a white cop.......... Houston, we have a problem.........
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Tony Johnson Wrote: Third police killing recently, Mr. Garner "I can't breathe, I can't breathe" Anyone surprised in all 3 cases it was a black victim and a white cop.......... Houston, we have a problem.........
    Tony--racism is over! Didn't you get the memo?

    I am cautiously optimistic after seeing President Obama use his bully pulpit to shine a light on these senseless murders recently. Whether he can actually help push through a significant change in how our police operate is a question that is open for debate.

    In the meantime, our Congress continues to authorize the sale of weapons of war to local police departments and shows zero signs of slowing that down. If we ever want to stop that terrible practice then we have to repeal the Department of Defense Logistics Agency Disposition Services '1033 program', which is conveniently tucked into the 'must pass' yearly National Defense Authorization Act. This is the program that sells military equipment to local police stations in the name of fighting the 'War on Drugs,' but in actuality has been used as a tool to militarize our police from New York to Hawaii.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    LA, the video does look convincing and I'm puzzled at the verdict. Seeing the policeman on Garners back with his hands up does look odd and begs for why did the police react that way. I haven't seen the grand jury testimony, yet, but the picture does indicate possible police wrong doing. Since the evidence is around the idea of an illegal chock hold, what I'm seeing is undefined as a chokehold. Garner drops to the ground, thus no video shows if an illegal chokehold was applied. However, on autopsy the doctors do indicate that Garner died from an applied chokehold. What was shown in the video is the Officers hand and arm around the neck, but I am not seeing an actual choke tactic. The Officer appears to be doing a grab and force to the ground tactic, much like you would see in football. Maybe a referee would have thrown a flag as a foul, but I do not see an actual chokehold that would be called illegal.

    This is a hard one for someone on the internet and TV to determine what actually went wrong. Knowing what I know and not hearing any testimony or seeing any evidence, I would have rendered an indictment and the Officers involved held over for trial by jury. At this time, I do not have all the facts, but puzzled by the grand jury's decision. There must be more video that shows an illegal chokehold and if there was maybe that's what was need to indict. The autopsy by the doctor must have been "opinion", which is nebulous as evidence. The prosecutor needed more to convince the grand jury to indict.

    In no way is this compared to what happened at Ferguson, which is what many in the media keeps bringing up. These are two entirely different situations. I do realize what is similar to Garner and Brown, both were committing a crime at the time of the police encounter and both did not deserve the outcome that happened.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    One of NYC's great police bosses claims that a person must breathe in order to say "I can't breathe" that the suspect would be lying.
    I encourage all of you to exhale your oxygen and the say "I can't breathe" (ten times)...and as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow I was able to complete this experiment.

    Since he was selling loose cigarrettes, what was the urgency in getting this man in handcuffs so rapidly? they say "subject" "suspect" and my favorite..."assailant"
    Never do they say "person"...always dehumanizing citizens for the littlest thing.....I still don't get it.....something so simple.....what happened to good ole fahion reasoning???? Suspect??? selling loose cigarettes for a dollar,
    A natural human reponse is to break your fall,,,,,400 pounds going to the floor.......and after being choked his hands remain raised....you can hear his urgency when he states..."I can't breathe"......and then he's on all four"s like a dog.....and then they sit on a 400 pound man while hands are behind his back.....WOW
    Today, they ask for calm...citing "we weren't there, we don't have all the facts" To the contrary...we were all there...front row. We saw it. We have all the facts and now they attempt to convince us that the video is somehow unreliable???? AMAZING

    The mayor kissing ass so that he can turn on a goddamn Christmas tree. Playing to the cameras...he called Garner "a great man".... can u believe that.???
    You allowed police to kill a great man.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: In no way is this compared to what happened at Ferguson, which is what many in the media keeps bringing up. These are two entirely different situations. I do realize what is similar to Garner and Brown, both were committing a crime at the time of the police encounter and both did not deserve the outcome that happened.
    Two unarmed black men were killed by white police officers for walking while black. Please explain how this is 'in no way' comparable to what happened in Ferguson.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Like I said............different situations and circumstances, you only note what you see as a similarity, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt and say your correct. However, you cannot judge or pursue a trial on the evidence of any of these situations against the other.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    One of NYC's great police bosses claims that a person must breathe in order to say "I can't breathe" that the suspect would be lying.
    I encourage all of you to exhale your oxygen and the say "I can't breathe" (ten times)...and as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow I was able to complete this experiment.

    Since he was selling loose cigarrettes, what was the urgency in getting this man in handcuffs so rapidly? they say "subject" "suspect" and my favorite..."assailant"
    Never do they say "person"...always dehumanizing citizens for the littlest thing.....I still don't get it.....something so simple.....what happened to good ole fahion reasoning???? Suspect??? selling loose cigarettes for a dollar,
    A natural human reponse is to break your fall,,,,,400 pounds going to the floor.......and after being choked his hands remain raised....you can hear his urgency when he states..."I can't breathe"......and then he's on all four"s like a dog.....and then they sit on a 400 pound man while hands are behind his back.....WOW
    Today, they ask for calm...citing "we weren't there, we don't have all the facts" To the contrary...we were all there...front row. We saw it. We have all the facts and now they attempt to convince us that the video is somehow unreliable???? AMAZING

    The mayor kissing ass so that he can turn on a goddamn Christmas tree. Playing to the cameras...he called Garner "a great man".... can u believe that.???
    You allowed police to kill a great man.12-03-2014, 07:59 PM
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    From what I am led to believe is that the choke hold is not illegal but it is against NYPD policy, so given the fact that I my self had to take down men larger then myself I often used a leg sweep technique which involved taking out one or both legs if possible, I had never reached for the head to employ some sort of head hold, I also employed a hand to the lower jaw/upper throat hold to make a person comply with my commands, big man (fat) have at most times breathing problems, whether they are on their back or lying prone, it is especially more troublesome if they are cuffed in the back, given that , once I had the person under control I stood them up, it was easier to handle them this way, because they can breath easier standing up, watching the video it the officer appears to be way to short to employ an effective choke , until the man begins to go down that is, and this is where the problem begins, the mans own weight works against him, and the officer is totally unaware of the mans difficulty to breath, there were other officers on the scene who could have been more helpful in this incident, once on the ground there was no need for knee in the back, even if he were not restrained , he would have had great difficulty getting up to even a sitting position unaided, so as I mentioned before regarding the charge of murder, if there were no other options except the murder charge, and with the absence of malice, it would have been difficult to gain a murder indictment, but with various degrees of manslaughter,or even a negligent homicide charge being available is another story.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    JC

    As a commercial truck driver I'm subject to DOT regulation. Every two years a physical exam: High blood pressure, diabetes, mild stroke, heart condition and poor eye sight ...the DOT pulls my license. I'm required to do a pre-trip and post-trip inspection (documented) .....Hours of service= 11 straight hours driving (log book). Weight- cannot exceed 80,000 gross weight......Any violations that result in death to another motorist...I go to prison

    So here...as easy as it is for me to go to prison....no one will convince me that the officers shouln't go to prison as well. The driver that hit (comedian) tracy morgan is going to prison.....DOT regualtion are in fact laws....police policy violatios are in fact violations of law.....police departments are regulated.

    State and local Municipalities have an obligation for "PUIBLIC SAFETY".....here, the officers have no public safety interests...only their own interest.
    "THIS SAVAGE MUST BE TAKEN DOWN...BECAUSE I SAY SO."

    Government refuses to pursue criminal charges because it's only a criminal act if they charge a criminal act....Public Safety is now at someones discretion.
    As a truck driver...I have no weapon nor the authority to or use one......look what I have to through just to keep my livlihood......If not murder, then something else.... A person died at the hands of police. Period
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Tonight here in Philly at a Christmas tree lighting and a play put on by children for children was disrupted by protesters carrying and using bull horns to drown out the music along with sirens and using spray paint to deface the decorations with slogans and the names of the victims all to protest the two recent decisions of two separate Grand Juries decisions to not indict the killing of black men by white police officers, when questioned by a news reporters one of the protesters claim that it time to take it to the streets, I don't know what point they were trying to make but I do know they gained zero support for their issue, several parents who came quite a distance to enjoy the event were disgusted by their antics, one parent went on camera and said that he too was upset about the decisions but he is not going to destroy someone's property just to show the world how angry he was about it, several arrests were made , but this is just foolishness, it appears it was more about the group gaining some attention and face time on camera rather than the Grand Juries decisions or the method of how they go about their business.