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a small question

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  • Independent
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    one has a small question.

    what, exactly, are american values?

    we hear the term thrown around by the bloviating buffoons who get elected but we seem to lack for a definition thereof.

    i'm american, as though that means anything. does it follow my values are american values?

    one thing you may learn of the lonely bird (aka bird on several other boards) is that i am stridently anti-exceptionalist.

    so, american values...

    anyone? bueller?
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    lonely bird Wrote: one has a small question.

    what, exactly, are american values?

    we hear the term thrown around by the bloviating buffoons who get elected but we seem to lack for a definition thereof.

    i'm american, as though that means anything. does it follow my values are american values?

    one thing you may learn of the lonely bird (aka bird on several other boards) is that i am stridently anti-exceptionalist.

    so, american values...

    anyone? bueller?
    American Values 101


    1. Selfishness ..............................................4. The need to remain uneducated

    2. Whining and Complaining .............................5. Flag waving and Ribbon placement (very important)

    3. Self Righteousness and Grandiosity..................6. Extreme hunger for entertainment (Church Doctrine)

    There you have it...........Our Value system

    We start our day with a big breakfast at Mc Donald to which we can't even throw away the box or wrapping because we're fat and lazy. We then complain and whine about gas and food prices while we jump in our Suburbans on our way to little Billy's tee ball game. But we can't steer the truck because I'm still holding the largest choclate shake Mc Donalds can sell me.

    Then I go to work and tell everyone just how great I am because of my 5 can donation to the Food Bank at my local Church, I sit my fat ass down and and answer the phone all day because I'm not a receptionist....I am a customer service specialist. And its my job to hound you all day in hopes that I can seperate you from your money.
    I don't want to educate myself for fear of losing the traditionalism that mommy and daddy taught me..... so I'll just listen to the news so that I don't sound so stupid to my peers at work. I refuse to look at the world around because my life is so important and makes sense.

    Vote??? are you kidding me. Little Billy is receiving his last place tee ball trophy....His psych stressed the importance of little Billy's self esteem. And you know how important little Billy in the Big picture. Little Billy got a "great Citizen" award at school today because he told on little Jimmy.

    And I want to show my patriotism to all my neighbors, so please hand me the duct tape while I wrap this ribbon around my old oak tree. But hey, what time is it???? Screw the troops, Duck Dynasty is about to start.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Because of our freedom of speech, people say many things. Nobodies thoughts, beliefs, values, or opinions are America's. L.A. had a pretty good list but it's one of 400 million. I would say: 1. Freedom, 2. Earning a living, 3. Respecting others after they've earned some respect, 4. Trying your best to get along with others or avoiding those you don't get along with, and 5. Not walking in the street in Ferguson unless you're white. Oh yeah, returning what you've borrowed. Finally, Don't start Forest Fires.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    TJ Wrote: Because of our freedom of speech, people say many things. Nobodies thoughts, beliefs, values, or opinions are America's. L.A. had a pretty good list but it's one of 400 million. I would say: 1. Freedom, 2. Earning a living, 3. Respecting others after they've earned some respect, 4. Trying your best to get along with others or avoiding those you don't get along with, and 5. Not walking in the street in Ferguson unless you're white. Oh yeah, returning what you've borrowed. Finally, Don't start Forest Fires.
    Correct, Value systems are subjective. My only measuring stick is history.....and let me tell you.....I think my list is right on.

    Everyday I hear words come out of peoples mouths. Biut I don't hear anymore. I pay close attention to your behavior. Behavior is an immediate action of our beliefs, opinions, and pre conceived notions. This is the evidence of how full of shit we are.
    I don't know what your definition of freedom is.....we may be a little more free than the rest of the world...but by no means our we free. Everybody here must answer to someone or something.

    Earning a living??? if thats what you want to call a value, so be it......You have to work or you live on the streets. They tell you how many hours you will work and for how much..... You then have the freedom to live in slums.

    Respecting others???? I respect myself and my actions,,,,,we don't need validation from each other. Respecting myself should keep me free from conflict ...but it doesn't. So I will have to commit some type of action if I'm truly disrespected (burglary, assault, etc.etc..) It's not your job to respect me, It's my job to prevent you from disrespecting me.

    Like I said, People say a lot......90 percent is complet bullshit.

    Yes sir Mr. Tony....never start forest fires or be a Black Man in Missouri
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote:
    TJ Wrote: Because of our freedom of speech, people say many things. Nobodies thoughts, beliefs, values, or opinions are America's. L.A. had a pretty good list but it's one of 400 million. I would say: 1. Freedom, 2. Earning a living, 3. Respecting others after they've earned some respect, 4. Trying your best to get along with others or avoiding those you don't get along with, and 5. Not walking in the street in Ferguson unless you're white. Oh yeah, returning what you've borrowed. Finally, Don't start Forest Fires.
    Correct, Value systems are subjective. My only measuring stick is history.....and let me tell you.....I think my list is right on.

    Everyday I hear words come out of peoples mouths. Biut I don't hear anymore. I pay close attention to your behavior. Behavior is an immediate action of our beliefs, opinions, and pre conceived notions. This is the evidence of how full of shit we are.
    I don't know what your definition of freedom is.....we may be a little more free than the rest of the world...but by no means our we free. Everybody here must answer to someone or something.

    Earning a living??? if thats what you want to call a value, so be it......You have to work or you live on the streets. They tell you how many hours you will work and for how much..... You then have the freedom to live in slums.

    Respecting others???? I respect myself and my actions,,,,,we don't need validation from each other. Respecting myself should keep me free from conflict ...but it doesn't. So I will have to commit some type of action if I'm truly disrespected (burglary, assault, etc.etc..) It's not your job to respect me, It's my job to prevent you from disrespecting me.

    Like I said, People say a lot......90 percent is complet bullshit.

    Yes sir Mr. Tony....never start forest fires or be a Black Man in Missouri
    Yes I like this question!! What are American values? If you ask me "very few" if any
    Let me look at it from a European way of life versus here.

    1) This is the first time I've been in a Capitalistic country; money runs the show; not family life or explore the world ( let alone be aware there are other countries with more people than here; "island culture" prevails).

    2) Sorry to say I never seen so many hypcrites as here; they smile to your face with a gun in their pocket.

    3) I never seen so many obese fat people as here

    4) Fanatism about religion, army, footbal, baseball. basketball way overdone; nothing seems to be able to be moderate.

    5) I never seen any such poor government structure; only two parties which does not represent the feelings or wishes of the population; in the Netherlands there are at least more than 10 parties on which you can vote; even the communistic one.

    6) If you don't have what another likes or want than you never make friends; sorry to say ; Over in Europe it is very easy to make friends; without "money" in the picture

    7) The worst part is the "indoctrination" either by the churches ( I've never seen so many as here), armed forces, media, government etc.

    8) Having an open mind is virtually impossible; Americans are set in their ways as L.A. clearly describes.

    9) Billionairs rule; not the Mc Donnald worker

    10) At least I can laugh at all and enjoy the weirdo's around me; free circus every day; I'll drink to that!!
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    lonely bird Wrote: one has a small question.

    what, exactly, are american values?
    This question can be answered a million different ways from a million different people. In all reality, there is no such thing as 'American values.' There are individual values you as a human being have. Some are positive; some are negative; some help others; and some hurt others.

    Americans elect people who they think share their values, but that does not make those values 'American values.' 50.01 percent of voters who cast a ballot might elect someone who is an anti-immigrant xenophobe. Does that mean that being anti-immigrant is now an 'American value' because a majority of people voted for that person? Or is it the values of the fifty-one percent who voted for that person?

    Values are inside of each individual, not the country as a whole.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    I like all of your answers personally, especially LA's and Dutch's!
  • Independent
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    ok. thanks to everyone who has responded so far.

    i must agree that there is no such thing as "american values." imo, the concept arises from empire. yes, i realize the u.s. doesn't have a traditional empire anymore. but the influence across the globe cannot be denied. as such what, iirc, tocqueville talked about is not what we have. the experiment of a republic on a scale as large as this or even the scale it started on had never really been done. this was exceptional. after that the nation succumbed to the same bullschlitz that every rising nation encounters when those who wield power seek more of it. of course manifest destiny was the first example followed by the monroe doctrine. one could go one but it is likely moot.

    human values are something else. much of what various religious figures said or were claimed to have said re: treatment of others is paid lip service and ignored beyond that.

    have to go eat dinner but one will return...
  • Independent
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    back again.

    this question then intersects the spouting of politicians, pundits, the public, religionists etc ad nauseum ad infinitum when the words "freedom", "liberty", "democracy" are thrown around as well as phrases such as "america stands for..(fill-in-the-blank undefined blurt)".

    america stands for nothing.

    dangerous concept, that.

    imo, this is true. l.a. citizen speaks correctly when he says that he respects himself as well as watching the behavior of others. the actions of the united states government and therefore its citizens whether we like it or not do not mesh with our self-proclaimed "values." we do not believe or support democracy when it interferes with profit. we do not support the right of self-determination of others when it interferes with profit or the free flow of required raw materials to support our decaying deathstyle.

    no, we talk an excellent game and play one many times in complete opposition to what we proclaim our values to be.

    i do not recall who said it but this applies:

    "a nation does not have values, it has interests."

    perhaps that is american values best summed up.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    If any of you remember when the idiotic citizenry wanted to change the name of the "french fry" to :freedom fries.
    That has to go down as one of most outrageous, idiotoc actions I have ever witnessed. That should sum it all up: VALUES

    Recentlty, when the writer of O'ROMNEY care called us stupid , America was actually mad..... as if clearly he was mistaken. That's the funny part. American citizenry "BELIEVES" that were the best country in the world.

    There's no reasoning with anyone who has there mind made up. Beliefs are the most dangerous weapon on earth. You don't have to be right.
    Any person who can blow themselves up with a bomb is a believer.....

    I laugh at all the believers in this country.....always performing at the bare minimum in support of whatever it is they believe in. Our believers have sit-ins, shopping boycotts, and a whole lot ribbon placing. That's the difference. The emphasis is on the person,,, not the protest.

    I've seen France shut the whole country because of a protest. Here, we close down one line at K-MART, and then we throw a party, tap each other on the tush and say, " We had a great movement today" Bob, we sure showed them"
  • Independent
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    man lives by narrative.

    in an empire/dominant nation facing decline man clings to narrative. this is what we are seeing. the u.s. military can no longer be an underpinning of maintaining our economic position. it is interesting that hagel said he wants to update the military to maintain dominance. what dominance?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/16/usa-defense-hagel-innovation-idUSL2N0T510Y20141116

    so hagel will resort to narrative. the u.s. military/industrial/university complex will seek to churn out weaponry that basically will be trying to maintain access to an energy platform that is dwindling over time. this will be done instead of using the monies for other more prudent purposes.

    note that i am projecting my narrative and hagel is projecting his/the u.s. civic religious narrative of exceptionalism. and as the link notes his exceptionalism is based upon a faulty premise which is that said "update" can be protected from cyber attack. the u.s. military has shown itself to be brave but that is not the point in the last two wars, afganistan and iraq. both were failures of planning and both showed that the vaunted military could not accomplish the task with which it was presented because the military is no longer a viable solution to the problems that we face.

    sorry for wandering a bit here.

    we must face the fact that the u.s. has stood astride the world due to a very unique set of circumstances. those circumstances no longer apply. attempts to maintain the exceptionalist narrative are throwing good money after bad. it is not a matter of updating the military or drill, baby, drill or any other such nonsense. but that single sentence underscores the actual problem which is one of narrative and belief structure. can the u.s. change its underlying narrative and belief structure to save itself?

    sadly, i do not think it can unless it is forced upon the country and that will be a situation which will invite chaos and reactionaryism.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    lonely bird Wrote: man lives by narrative.

    in an empire/dominant nation facing decline man clings to narrative. this is what we are seeing. the u.s. military can no longer be an underpinning of maintaining our economic position. it is interesting that hagel said he wants to update the military to maintain dominance. what dominance?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/16/usa-defense-hagel-innovation-idUSL2N0T510Y20141116

    so hagel will resort to narrative. the u.s. military/industrial/university complex will seek to churn out weaponry that basically will be trying to maintain access to an energy platform that is dwindling over time. this will be done instead of using the monies for other more prudent purposes.

    note that i am projecting my narrative and hagel is projecting his/the u.s. civic religious narrative of exceptionalism. and as the link notes his exceptionalism is based upon a faulty premise which is that said "update" can be protected from cyber attack. the u.s. military has shown itself to be brave but that is not the point in the last two wars, afganistan and iraq. both were failures of planning and both showed that the vaunted military could not accomplish the task with which it was presented because the military is no longer a viable solution to the problems that we face.

    sorry for wandering a bit here.

    we must face the fact that the u.s. has stood astride the world due to a very unique set of circumstances. those circumstances no longer apply. attempts to maintain the exceptionalist narrative are throwing good money after bad. it is not a matter of updating the military or drill, baby, drill or any other such nonsense. but that single sentence underscores the actual problem which is one of narrative and belief structure. can the u.s. change its underlying narrative and belief structure to save itself?

    sadly, Ido not think it can unless it is forced upon the country and that will be a situation which will invite chaos and reactionaryism.
    Lonely, sure I've said the same thing many times; however this "island" culture here thinks it is the only place on earth. We think we can rule the whole world while we are just about 1/50th of it. We also think that flag waving and handing out medals will save this country. On top of it as you said we still think we can rule the world via military or money hand-outs only. Furthermore we are forgetting that the rest of the world is not Christian or religeous fanatic in a lot of places. Put we think we have found the holy grail regardless of the B.S. preached; so our pumped in Christian values including ownership of a bunch of AK 47's helps to satisfy our in-superiority complex. as well uniforms plastered to the neck with full of worthless junk. In the meantime while we are fully indoctrinated in our "money" culture, the "rich are slowly but surely taking over so that this country will become a "dictator"ship by the 1%. Sorry to say all of the above will eventually be unmanageable; when? I don't know but predict chaos as a result, or a complete meltdown of capitalism.