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why I'm not religious any more ...

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  • Center Left Democrat
    Democrat
    Flagstaff, AZ
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    Officially, my wife and I are "fallen away" Catholics, but she has relatives who would NEVER criticize either the Catholic church, or most other Christian religions.

    Most of us are aware of the fact that Pat Robertson is bats**t crazy, and he was in the news again for saying something totally stupid. He managed to offend the folks in Kenya (Obama's birthplace (?), and a predominantly Christian nation) by stating that they could gets AIDS from towels:

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Kenya-robertson-kenya-aids/2014/10/24/id/602877/?ns_mail_uid=54082875&ns_mail_job=1592151_10242014&s=al&dkt_nbr=6msp29jd

    I likely offended one of my wife's relatives yesterday when I sent her an article about Steve King, who also happens to bats**t crazy. In addition to being a Tea Party Republican, he's also a devout Catholic.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/23/1338645/-Rep-Steve-King-I-don-t-expect-to-meet-gay-people-in-heaven?detail=email#

    her response (posted below) is strikingly similar to what Pat (or Phil) Robertson would say:

    Blessed are those who are persecuted for My sake for their's shall be the Kingdom of Heaven ...

    up until about 18 months ago, we attended a non denominational church in flagstaff .. after the preacher told the audience that the Bible was literally true, we stopped gong ..

    If you'd like proof that it's not, I would encourage you to take the Bible quiz at the link below. It's an "open book" test, but you probably won't get most of the answers correct:

    http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2010/09/bible-told-me-so.html
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    Hello: Hey, I thought the Catholics had "loosened up a bit" lately, after Pope Francis said even gays and divorced people could go to Heaven. Maybe the rest of the Catholics could start getting used to having those (divorced) "sinners" among them while still on this earth.

    And frankly, it is a bit hypocritical for Priests and Popes (in the past) to be proclaiming "gays" to be horrible sinners, when we all know what secretly went on (for centuries) was same-sex penetration, often behind the altar, with little boys. (unleashing 100's of lawsuits).

    LET HIM WHO IS WITHOUT SIN, CAST THE FIRST STONE. Meanwhile, practice Divine Forgiveness & WELCOME ALL to the Catholic Church and all the other churches, because we can do great things, if we all work together, instead of against each other. AMEN.

    I am so happy we all have a progressive Pope, who offers Hope to the world, & more loving tolerance for All People.
  • Democrat
    Virginia Beach, VA
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    Congratulations on a big step in a journey that, if you brave it, will result in rejection of belief of any kind. Only truth liberates.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    I believe... You are on the right track!
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    The Catholic church and any church should stop spreading their lies; sorry gay's or sinners or the Pope himself will never end up anywhere outside this globe; so it does not matter at all if they change their minds on gays, divorced, sinners etc. I would love it if the Pope would tell us where that "heaven" or "hell" is; how does a dead brain get there (without data or energy) and if he ever has seen anything leave a dead body. As soon as he answers those questions then he is allowed to return all the stolen gold in his fantasy island churches.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    I'm afraid the answers you seek will come to late for you to do anything about it. As mankind continues on it's journey through faith, there will be persecution, ridicule and threats that is given. As mankind continues in it's journey through faith, there will be obstacles forcing those who struggle to renounce their faith and beliefs handed down from past generations. As mankind continues on it's journey through faith, science and technology wil continue to place stumbling blocks in front of all to trip and fall, but one thing will always stand out........science and technology will never have the answers that make sense of it all. Mankind is humbled in the fact we are ignorant of God's Glory and vastness of His Omnipotent Power. Faith in God's Words is our only stand against the evil of all that is in this world and for many of that believe, Jesus is our redemption for our sins.

    All those questions you want us people who profess our faith to answer you..........sorry, God hasn't told me, yet. Don't fool yourself though that you have all the answers..............that's just plain foolishness that has been continued throughout history where ancient fool hardy, possibly intelligent, have went to their graves and never really convincing themselves they were right. However, they sure fooled a lot of people from the joy of receiving God's Kingdom.

    Dutch, I get a good laugh at some of your questions.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    that guy,
    The beauty of this great country is that you should be completely comfortable on any path that you chose. There certainly is a lot of ignorance and downright stupidity (also corruption) involved with organized religion. To me it seems like the primary consideration is often making big money.
    Good luck to you.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    A very timely piece on this very subject was published in Salon today. I would suggest AMC come out of his fog and read it, not that he would understand the real truth behind it http://www.salon.com/2014/10/25/reza_aslans_atheism_problem_fundamentalist_athe.../
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    I do hope that nothing I say will cause anyone to lose Faith. All religions have some good people and ideals, & they can often bring HELP to all the people who are poor, unemployed, disabled, or ignored by the rest of society. In case I have not mentioned it, 2 of my best friends have become Catholic Nuns. And one of the sweetest women in the world who adopted a disabled orphan, & who contributes to dozens of charities every day, while being the most charming senior citizen you ever met, is Jewish. While still alive, she sent Christmas cards to our family, even though, of course, they were not believers in Christmas. I have never yet met any Christian who is more perfect an example as this woman was.

    I only met 2 Muslims (men) but in general, they seemed to be nice. I took one from Pakistan out to eat, & was amazed that they mostly ate (from a huge buffet) only fruit and vegetables. They ignored meat and dessert. He told me he had to climb over mountains to get to school, & we both sat wide-eyed in my car, staring at an insect perched on my dashboard. At first i started to automatically swat the bug, but suddenly a ray of sunshine lit him up, his delicate wings like transparent lace, his body lit up like a rainbow. It was gorgeous. We watched it for awhile, and then we both looked at each other & said in unison "Let him go." I unrolled the window & watched the tiny insect fly happily into the sky. My new Arab friend said, "Yes, it is alive and ALL life is precious." And for a fantastic moment or 2, I believed that universal PEACE was possible.

    He gave me a copy of the Koran to read, but that year my study schedule was really heavy, so I only got to read a few random paragraphs, just to see if any similarities between the Bible and the Koran. Amazing, its author, Mohammed had read the Bible (since Jesus had lived 600 years
    before Mohammed) & much of the Koran was very close to the Old Testament. The part that said we were all sinners & should be going to Hell.

    I DO BELIEVE if Geo W Bush would have NOT bombed Iraq & other Muslim countries, we would not be having all this Terrorism in the Middle East and the world could be living in a Paradise of freedom, where we could do trade & manage disputes by negotiation.

    BY THE WAY, I just discovered that American souvenirs (in Wash DC) -- many of them are made in communist VIET NAM. I do not think it is really a bad thing, since we trade with China & many other places, but it shocked me at first, after we got 58,000 American soldiers killed over there, in Viet Nam (for 12 years) -- that now they are making US souvenirs for us. And they are a totally Communist nation. What a wild world this is.
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    Ok, I agree, reject organized religion for all the right reasons, and liberate yourself with a clear conscience. Is that a truth that liberates or a lie ?

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    eternal flame Wrote: I do hope that nothing I say will cause anyone to lose Faith. All religions have some good people and ideals, & they can often bring HELP to all the people who are poor, unemployed, disabled, or ignored by the rest of society. In case I have not mentioned it, 2 of my best friends have become Catholic Nuns. And one of the sweetest women in the world who adopted a disabled orphan, & who contributes to dozens of charities every day, while being the most charming senior citizen you ever met, is Jewish. While still alive, she sent Christmas cards to our family, even though, of course, they were not believers in Christmas. I have never yet met any Christian who is more perfect an example as this woman was.

    I only met 2 Muslims (men) but in general, they seemed to be nice. I took one from Pakistan out to eat, & was amazed that they mostly ate (from a huge buffet) only fruit and vegetables. They ignored meat and dessert. He told me he had to climb over mountains to get to school, & we both sat wide-eyed in my car, staring at an insect perched on my dashboard. At first i started to automatically swat the bug, but suddenly a ray of sunshine lit him up, his delicate wings like transparent lace, his body lit up like a rainbow. It was gorgeous. We watched it for awhile, and then we both looked at each other & said in unison "Let him go." I unrolled the window & watched the tiny insect fly happily into the sky. My new Arab friend said, "Yes, it is alive and ALL life is precious." And for a fantastic moment or 2, I believed that universal PEACE was possible.

    He gave me a copy of the Koran to read, but that year my study schedule was really heavy, so I only got to read a few random paragraphs, just to see if any similarities between the Bible and the Koran. Amazing, its author, Mohammed had read the Bible (since Jesus had lived 600 years
    before Mohammed) & much of the Koran was very close to the Old Testament. The part that said we were all sinners & should be going to Hell.

    I DO BELIEVE if Geo W Bush would have NOT bombed Iraq & other Muslim countries, we would not be having all this Terrorism in the Middle East and the world could be living in a Paradise of freedom, where we could do trade & manage disputes by negotiation.

    BY THE WAY, I just discovered that American souvenirs (in Wash DC) -- many of them are made in communist VIET NAM. I do not think it is really a bad thing, since we trade with China & many other places, but it shocked me at first, after we got 58,000 American soldiers killed over there, in Viet Nam (for 12 years) -- that now they are making US souvenirs for us. And they are a totally Communist nation. What a wild world this is.
    Eternal, your last para is missing something; you are only talking about 58,000 Americans being killed; how many Vietnamese we killed gruelly with napalm and agent orange as well bombed everything to pieces; we also teached Israel on how to do that; as well put Iraq in ruins; and such in countries who never attacked us in the first place. By the way the sneakers you have on are likely also made in Vietnam.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Mack the Knife Wrote:

    Ok, I agree, reject organized religion for all the right reasons, and liberate yourself with a clear conscience. Is that a truth that liberates or a lie ?

    Mack I'll answer that; what is liberation? I guess it never takes place, because a human being is formed and run by its brain; it either functions or not. no one is ever being "liberated" due to the complexity of life; you have think of eating, doing things, sleeping, trying to get along in this world etc. A certain form of liberation is thinking for yourself and not being indoctrinated by the media, church, army, government. It already starts at school you are alredy told what to learn; there is where "liberation" is already gone out of the "window"
    In general Americans are kind of lazy and "sheep" like and follow the herd. They want to belong to something, because of in-security; makes it easy; let others do the thinking for you. Whatever is the "thruth" or not, you have to find that out for yourself.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: I'm afraid the answers you seek will come to late for you to do anything about it. As mankind continues on it's journey through faith, there will be persecution, ridicule and threats that is given. As mankind continues in it's journey through faith, there will be obstacles forcing those who struggle to renounce their faith and beliefs handed down from past generations. As mankind continues on it's journey through faith, science and technology wil continue to place stumbling blocks in front of all to trip and fall, but one thing will always stand out........science and technology will never have the answers that make sense of it all. Mankind is humbled in the fact we are ignorant of God's Glory and vastness of His Omnipotent Power. Faith in God's Words is our only stand against the evil of all that is in this world and for many of that believe, Jesus is our redemption for our sins.

    All those questions you want us people who profess our faith to answer you..........sorry, God hasn't told me, yet. Don't fool yourself though that you have all the answers..............that's just plain foolishness that has been continued throughout history where ancient fool hardy, possibly intelligent, have went to their graves and never really convincing themselves they were right. However, they sure fooled a lot of people from the joy of receiving God's Kingdom.

    Dutch, I get a good laugh at some of your questions.
    AMC, don't laugh at it , but start thinking for a change; when was the first and last time you talked to outerspace; just answer these questions;
    What will leave your "dead" body? Do you have a "back-up" file hidden somewhere of what is in your brain;( the way you think. it can't be much data)
    So if I retrieve that "disc" where do I sent it too? Anyway keep on dreaming; you're a lost cause. Ever thought about that your "brain" is the center of your life and if "dead" no battery does re-start it; gone is gone. Can you grasp that at all?
  • Center Left Democrat
    Democrat
    Flagstaff, AZ
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    eternal flame:


    You exhibited a great deal of wisdom in your recent thoughts.

    A truly complete response could easily run to about 50 pages, so I'll try to keep my thoughts considerably more concise.

    One of my best friends in China was a devout Muslim who even refused water during Ramadan because he was "fasting", not necessarily a healthy thing to do when both the temperature and the humidity are in the 90's. According to the official Chinese website, the country offers freedom of religion, but only about 100 million of the 1.3 billion people that live there follow an organized religion. In my opinion, there's an awful lot of atheists in China who are better Christians than many Christians here (pick you favorite Tea Party politician here) because they act as Christ would have acted. In our country, it's still far to common to disguise hate with religion, and both Phil Robertson and Steve King are guilty of that.

    I also have read the Koran (I've got 2 free copies on my bookshelf) and actually wrote a 4000 word, 14 page, book report on the topic. You're correct in that the Koran is remarkably similar to the Old Testament, and the story about Joseph is nearly identical to the version found in the Bible.By the way, there's absolutely nothing in there about 77 virgins, but there IS a strong clue why exactly 19 hijackers were on those planes in 2001.

    Far too many people forget the fact that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are "Abrahamic" religions because they all claim Abraham as a common ancestor. The story below goes into more detail about the reasons for the distrust between Christians and Muslims, and also explains why our country is MUCH safer with Barack Obama at its head than the cowboy diplomat that he replaced.

    http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2009/06/book-of-signs.html

    In addition to the fact that most of the people in the world have a common ancestor (in Abraham) it's also true that ALL OF US came from the same place in the world, so prejudice against skin color or national origin is absolutely foolish. Dr Alice Roberts narrated an excellent 5 hour series on BBC a while back about the common origin. The link below will give you a summary, but will also allow you to view all 5 hours if you click on the right links.


    http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2014/04/out-of-africa.html
  • Center Left Democrat
    Democrat
    Flagstaff, AZ
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    eternal flame:


    Sijnce both you and Dutch mentioned Vietnam, I'll add one more comment about that topic.

    A common theme among religions is forgiveness, and the best possible example of that is Phan Thi Kim Phuc. In 1972, her village was bombed by American forces, and she had a mess of napalm that fell on her body. Napalm, incidentally, burns at about 2200 degrees. Miraculously, she survived, but endured 14 months in the hospital and 17 operations.

    She later married a fellow Vietnamese whom she met in Cuba, and the 2 eventually fled to Canada, where they received asylum.

    In 1996, she gave a speech at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington D.C., and she met Revered John Plummer, the man responsible for planning the attack on her village.

    She publicly forgave him, which is an act that most of us would be incapable of. Her story can be found below:


    http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2009/03/what-do-you-say-to-naked-lady.html