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I am a libertarian, come debate me!

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    All this vast knowledge and wisdom coming from someone who believes in walking on water, walking sticks being turned into snakes, serpents who spoke aramaic and that this planet is 6000 years old.......INSANITY. My evidence stems from the world I observe daily....not from a fictitious character created in comic book....that book is the Bible.
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    This is getting good... Time to make some popcorn and crack a beer, sit back and smile :)
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    PGR, Believe this or not,,, I find some of these responses hillarious. It amazes me how in one instance a person can sound rational and articulate....and then in a second that same person takes off into a world of complete fantasy. It's so funny that it's scary. I have to share earth with these people. There is a direct connection as to why this planet is coming unhinged. We have billions of people on earth. 75 percent of those inhabitants are willing to destroy each other over Fantasy......FANTASY!. Eventually we'll be just another one of nature's failed experiments....just another mutation of life gone wrong. Humans have tricked themselves into believing that we're special.....in the big picture, we are as important as fleas on the asses of dogs.... we are a joke It's going to get interesting in the near future.
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: All this vast knowledge and wisdom coming from someone who believes in walking on water, walking sticks being turned into snakes, serpents who spoke aramaic and that this planet is 6000 years old.......INSANITY. My evidence stems from the world I observe daily....not from a fictitious character created in comic book....that book is the Bible.
    What on earth are you talking about?! Who exactly is advocating religious fundamentalism? It certainly isn't me, I am completely anti-religion. It should be quite clear that libertarians have many more avowed atheists and agnostics among their ranks than most any mass movement or political party.

    It's hard to respond to incoherent statements. If you could explain exactly what you are saying and how it relates to the topic at hand, perhaps we can further this discussion in a productive direction.
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    jrodefeld Wrote:
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: All this vast knowledge and wisdom coming from someone who believes in walking on water, walking sticks being turned into snakes, serpents who spoke aramaic and that this planet is 6000 years old.......INSANITY. My evidence stems from the world I observe daily....not from a fictitious character created in comic book....that book is the Bible.
    What on earth are you talking about?! Who exactly is advocating religious fundamentalism? It certainly isn&#39;t me, I am completely anti-religion. It should be quite clear that libertarians have many more avowed atheists and agnostics among their ranks than most any mass movement or political party.<br /> <br /> It&#39;s hard to respond to incoherent statements. If you could explain exactly what you are saying and how it relates to the topic at hand, perhaps we can further this discussion in a productive direction.
    At no point was this a response to your post...I was responding to my good buddy AMC who for some reason attempts to interject religion into every topic
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    This is typical Libertarian behavior, LA. They believe the world revolves around them and everyone else's views and needs are unimportant. A Libertarian always believes others are infringing on their rights and wants to be able to live off the fruits of others labor but never contribute anything themselves to society. They are even more self-centered than your typical Conservative and contribute even less to society.
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    pr Wrote: This is typical Libertarian behavior, LA. They believe the world revolves around them and everyone else's views and needs are unimportant. A Libertarian always believes others are infringing on their rights and wants to be able to live off the fruits of others labor but never contribute anything themselves to society. They are even more self-centered than your typical Conservative and contribute even less to society.
    Yes PGR you've got it right. However I'm not surprised about such a movement. Due to our two party system a lot of people are dissatisfied with both; so no wonder they decide to be on their own. Let's be honest both parties are corrupt; election "money" by the millions make people think; not for me.
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    pr Wrote: This is typical Libertarian behavior, LA. They believe the world revolves around them and everyone else's views and needs are unimportant. A Libertarian always believes others are infringing on their rights and wants to be able to live off the fruits of others labor but never contribute anything themselves to society. They are even more self-centered than your typical Conservative and contribute even less to society.
    This is such a snarky response. No real refutation of any positions I have put forward, just recycled tired cliches and stereotypes. It is interesting how it makes me selfish to want others to refrain from using or advocating violence against me or my family. To the contrary, my motivations for opposing coercion and the State have everything to do with my compassion for others and concern for the welfare of society. We ALL live off of the benefits of others labor. A society is comprised of individuals whose productive work contributes greatly to others. Charity and mutual aid societies are ventures that I have advocated for a long time.

    In a market economy where none are permitted to use aggression against others, transactions occur that are mutually beneficial. It is a law of economics that in every voluntary trade, the participants have reverse preference orders. If I trade my watch for your jacket, that must mean I value your jacket more than my watch and you value my watch more than your jacket. We both expect to be made better off through the transaction.

    When violence and expropriation are employed as means for solving problems, society becomes split between exploiters and exploited. Instead of mutually beneficial trade, which is necessary in all voluntary transactions, you have some who employ the use of violence and intimidation to rob some of their property for the benefit of some others. Whoever benefits from such violence expropriation is exploited, and those who benefit disproportionately tend to be those who have lobbying power (the wealthy and influential), the exploiters. This is not a path towards general prosperity.

    What happens inevitably is that conflict grows exponentially in society. Since "public" land and extracted wealth and resources confiscated by the State are not owned by anyone, then it is forever unclear who has jurisdiction over their use. What that means is that society will be at each others throats, fighting over violently expropriated loot. The entire purpose of private property law, to avoid conflict and keep the peace, is perverted and huge amounts of time and energy is wasted on political action.

    Pointing this out doesn't make me "selfish" or any of those silly stereotypes. In fact as an advocate of voluntarism and non-aggression, I am the one who favors true charity, I am the one who supports a social organizing principle that would permit the greatest common welfare for mankind.

    I purposefully left out my personal efforts to help others through volunteer work and charity since I don't expect anyone to accept on blind faith the accomplishments listed by an anonymous poster. But it should go without saying that rejecting State violence is hardly the same as rejecting charity, mutual aid, and compassion for your fellow man.

    It is those very concerns that compel us to fight back against the State, the great scourge of mankind, the center of violent theft and murder.
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    Randy busy trying to cheat Medicaid right now, I'm afraid.
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    Fellow members....be back in a few weeks...censorship gods are at work
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    God bless you Sr. LA