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ISIS Problem is a serious mess

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  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Every day the news reports on ISIS and every day it gets worse. I know some would like us to pull out and do nothing. I am against almost all military activities done by the USA when we don't have a clear and immediate threat against us. However, this time I feel that these rogue punks who believe they can take whatever they want, whenever they want...... They need a firm / serious wake up call. If I were in charge (which obviously I'm not) I would schedule a serious ass kicking. I would get French, British, UAE, Saudi, Netherlands, Belgium, Australia, and any other competent forces (including Turkey) and I would drag these thugs over the burning hot coals. They've had their way for far too long. I think it's time for a large number of them to spend 10 hours laying in the sand or dirt bleeding. Maybe they will find a comforting prayer to help them relax.
    These guys are bullies who take whatever they want. They mistreat/rape women. They force their religious beliefs on everyone the come across. I would give them a dose of their own medicine. The likes of which they haven't seen yet. It's time for those who cause pain to finally feel pain. With mid-term elections 3 weeks away.......... it wouldn't be a bad message to send either.
    Please reply if you have ideas. If you intend to say what you've said 100 times before - save your time. The world is a big mess right now. It's time for the tide to change. It's time for the thugs to be punished severely.
    ISIS is now 15 miles from Baghdad. It's past time to get very serious. I would turn up the heat considerably.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    Yeah, it's a huge mess. I honestly have no ideas about how to handle ISIS that I feel confident about.

    ISIS is another creation of US involvement in the Middle East, just like Al-Qaeda, Hussein Regime, and the Taliban. My gut tells me that we should intervene, but we have such a long history of screwing everything up in that region that my brain is having a hard time getting on board with that idea.

    I feel guilty if we just bail because we are responsible. I would love some good brainstorming on the topic
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Tony--

    I don't disagree that ISIS is a terrible problem, but it's a problem of America's own making. Our military adventures in the Middle-East have come back to bite us square in the ass and there's next to nothing we can do about it now outside of putting hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground and re-occupying Iraq and invading Syria. This will be literally impossible to accomplish without instituting a draft in the States, which just isn't going to fly with the American public.

    We can not defeat an ideology with bombs. ISIS is just another fancy name for an ideology that calls for creating an Islamic State in the middle east. We found out the hard way that we can not defeat an ideology when we declared war on Al-Qaeda. The more bombs you drop, the more terrorists you create. The issue is far deeper and more complicated than military might.

    For starters, many Sunni's are quite happy with ISIS. It is comprised of many former members of the Iraqi Army and has struck a chord with the disaffected Sunni minority. We must remind ourselves that the Sunni's lived quite well during Saddam Hussein's rule and they are now largely shut out of the Iraqi government and feel they have nowhere else to turn. People start doing desperate things when they feel they have nothing to lose.

    Speaking of the Iraqi government--they are almost entirely to blame for the current state of affairs in that country. They completely shut out the Sunnis and marginalized them to the point of having no voice in governmental affairs. Is anyone really that surprised that they turned to violence? They were used to having complete control over Iraq for two decades under Saddam Hussein and all of a sudden found themselves with zero power at all.

    This is an issue that the Iraqi and Syrian people must figure out themselves. We can not play referee in a religious civil war. It hasn't worked for us since 2003 and it won't work going forward.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Well Jared,
    If that's the final word....... then we should send in some large planes...... Empty out our embassy, collect the left over Christians (who shouldn't have been there in the first place). They are averaging being saved about every 4 weeks. Whatever historical artifacts (that weren't looted after Sadam fell out of power will become garbage or ISIS may sell them on e bay.... and then we can watch that section of the world go straight down the toilet.
    Our lack of showing any strength will play nicely into the republicans hands with mid terms around the corner. Who knows, maybe in 12 years we can try to gain control again. We are sure looking pretty pitiful right now.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    I am by no means suggesting that my word is final. I'm just a regular person with a heck of a lot of opinions.

    I just don't agree that dropping a whole bunch of bombs will do much of anything at all other than make things worse than they already are. Bombing the hell out of things may look sexy on television, but it's not remotely effective at getting to the root of the overall problem, which is that the Sunnis are pissed off and have taken up arms. This is a quagmire that we can't do anything about. That is unless we decide to just kill all of the Sunnis.

    The historical artifacts you are talking about were looted from the museums long ago when the country descended into chaos back in late 2003. The American military sat back and let that happen for weeks. Those historical artifacts were sold on the black market long ago, so there's no need to worry about ISIS getting their hands on them.

    We are watching the Middle-East go straight down the toilet in real time. It's happening before our very eyes. No amount of American bombs will change that fact. The only thing that can change it is the Iraqi and Syrian people deciding that they've had enough. Once again, we can not enforce peace in a religious civil war.

    I'd much rather look pitiful than see one more American die in that part of the world. I've grown quite tired of seeing my military friends who fought in those conflicts come home and question what the hell we were doing there. I've grown quite tired of seeing how the American people were just fine with sending my friends off to war but didn't want to take care of them once they returned home. And I've grown quite tired of watching my government put ten years of war on a credit card while enacting tax cuts for the rich and then wondering why our economy cratered beneath our feet.

    And the problem with your statement about gaining control twelve years from now is that we never had control in the first place.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    It's so difficult to undo what took years maybe decades to make, if the politicians allow the Generals to conduct the war, regardless of what the Administration says, this a war, and allow them to wage around the clock air strikes, not just at selective times and targets, but all targets, the cost to be borne by those Middle East Nations whose butt we just saved, this what the politicians are good at, negotiations, assessing the cost of things, reparations if any, not conducting a war, however if those nations don't want to assist in their own survival, well, see ya, wouldn't want to be ya.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    You guys; I said these things more than two years ago; I was ridiculed about the effect of our drones, meddling, briberies in the world by the US.
    The chickens have come home to roost, I guess. I've said a million times you catch more flies with honey than with bombs. If we would "feed" the world instead of 'bomb" it or "bribe" it, then the picture would be totally different Why any rebellion? because of the have and have not's. The US form of so called democracy does not work in certain places of the world. Don't under-estimate the effect of "religion" and its "slave like" followers; they are a danger on its own The only way to fight ISIS is, as Obama clearly said, is to have the total Arabic world determine what they want and accept. Sure we created this problem, but it is in their backyard. However they are smart to let us cleanup our own created mess. So what's next, I don't know,but it is time the US realizes that our world wide policies stink.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Jared,
    When I said maybe we can gain control again in 12 years I was talking politics. I think we're on the eve of getting our ass kicked (4 weeks). You'd think any repub congress person would lose their job. I doubt that will happen though. We have a lame duck pres.......... We'll see what happens in the senate.
    As far as ISIS, how could it possibly get worse. By the end of the week they'll completely control 2 countries. That's why I would drop many and large bombs on them. They'll win anyway but if we can bring them much suffering I think that has value. This is a progressive group of militants. I don't see them sitting back and resting. As noted in a previous post, I would imagine Lebanon and Jordan to be next to fall. By then, Israel will probably get active because the neighborhood would be going to hell.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    TJ Wrote: Jared,
    When I said maybe we can gain control again in 12 years I was talking politics. I think we're on the eve of getting our ass kicked (4 weeks). You'd think any repub congress person would lose their job. I doubt that will happen though. We have a lame duck pres.......... We'll see what happens in the senate.
    As far as ISIS, how could it possibly get worse. By the end of the week they'll completely control 2 countries. That's why I would drop many and large bombs on them. They'll win anyway but if we can bring them much suffering I think that has value. This is a progressive group of militants. I don't see them sitting back and resting. As noted in a previous post, I would imagine Lebanon and Jordan to be next to fall. By then, Israel will probably get active because the neighborhood would be going to hell.
    Tony, I guess you forget Iran as well the "rich" arabic nations; their wealth is important to them and don't want to loose control. In my observation they are just waiting to see on how we fare; they will only step in if it affects them. So I would n't worry, Iraq nor Syria is of any interest to them. Let the "yankee's" deal with it and get a well deserved licking!! (that's how they think)
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    TJ Wrote: Jared,
    When I said maybe we can gain control again in 12 years I was talking politics. I think we're on the eve of getting our ass kicked (4 weeks). You'd think any repub congress person would lose their job. I doubt that will happen though. We have a lame duck pres.......... We'll see what happens in the senate.
    Whether or not the Republicans retake the Senate will have absolutely nothing to do with ISIS. The political map is not in favor of Democrats in 2014, plain and simple. The Democrats who strode into office on Obama's coattails in 2008 are now up for reelection. They are going up against an apathetic electorate who tends to sit out midterm elections. Those who do vote in midterms tend to be old, white, and Republican. ISIS or not, this will be a difficult election for Democrats.

    Have no fear though. Republicans will have just as hard of a time in 2016 because a whole bunch of Republican senators will be up for reelection, so I have a feeling any Republican majority will be extremely short lived. They will also overplay any hand they have been given because they won't be able to help themselves. Losing in 2014 may actually wind up helping Democrats in the long run because then the country will be reminded why they voted all Republicans out of office in 2006 and 2008.

    Don't fret too much about this election. Think about the long-term here. Republicans are increasingly isolated throughout this country and they will be a permanent minority party in the next 10-15 years because they have alienated every demographic other than old white men. You can only preach hate and division so much before people stop voting for you. And just look at the breakdown of the racial demographics of new voters. Republicans will go the way of the Whig Party if they don't move into the 21st Century.

    TJ Wrote:As far as ISIS, how could it possibly get worse. By the end of the week they'll completely control 2 countries. That's why I would drop many and large bombs on them. They'll win anyway but if we can bring them much suffering I think that has value. This is a progressive group of militants. I don't see them sitting back and resting. As noted in a previous post, I would imagine Lebanon and Jordan to be next to fall. By then, Israel will probably get active because the neighborhood would be going to hell.
    They are not going to be controlling two countries, they control chunks of two countries. Regardless, no American intervention can change that outside of sending in hundreds of thousands of ground troops and inserting ourselves into a religious civil war. This is a problem that Iraq, Syria, and the greater Middle-East need to figure out without American combat troops. I'd much rather see Kerry take a very active role than Hagel. This is a problem that can only be solved by diplomacy, not American bombs.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Jared,
    Yes the repub's are very exclusionary. That's why we got 4 more years with Mr. Obama. However, on the other side of the coin, the repub's are very well funded and they are almost a guarantee to vote. I wish the democrats were as dedicated to voting faithfully. It would improve things a great deal.

    I didn't listen to the news today. I'll have to catch up with current events in the middle east.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Jared,yes you've got it right; repeat:

    "They are not going to be controlling two countries, they control chunks of two countries. Regardless, no American intervention can change that outside of sending in hundreds of thousands of ground troops and inserting ourselves into a religious civil war. This is a problem that Iraq, Syria, and the greater Middle-East need to figure out without American combat troops. I'd much rather see Kerry take a very active role than Hagel. This is a problem that can only be solved by diplomacy, not American bombs"

    The only problem I see with Kerry is "he is way too much an American" who can not place himself in a middle east way of thinking. That has always been our problem because we are sitting on an island in this country. Our diplomacy always contains typical US promises, money, weapons, training in using our built weapons etc., but seldom of what the man in the street needs. Wars are always about "power" over the people. So we automatically deal with the one's who we think has the power; which is not always correct and may blow up into our face as is now the case.We need someone else than Kerry; a person who came from the middle east and was educated there. Don't show your shoe soles while sitting there; that is an insult, for instance.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: The only problem I see with Kerry is "he is way too much an American" who can not place himself in a middle east way of thinking. That has always been our problem because we are sitting on an island in this country. Our diplomacy always contains typical US promises, money, weapons, training in using our built weapons etc., but seldom of what the man in the street needs. Wars are always about "power" over the people. So we automatically deal with the one's who we think has the power; which is not always correct and may blow up into our face as is now the case.We need someone else than Kerry; a person who came from the middle east and was educated there. Don't show your shoe soles while sitting there; that is an insult, for instance.
    I don't know. I am a pretty big fan of Kerry and think he is doing a great job as Secretary of State. He's far less of a hawk than Hillary was and that is paying dividends in Obama's second term. Kerry has plenty of advisers to do some of the dirty work in Middle-Eastern diplomacy, but Kerry himself has to play a major role. That is the whole point of having a Secretary of State. If Obama appointed someone else to do the negotiations to bring about peace then the only thing we would hear about from the media is that Kerry was sidelined.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: The only problem I see with Kerry is "he is way too much an American" who can not place himself in a middle east way of thinking. That has always been our problem because we are sitting on an island in this country. Our diplomacy always contains typical US promises, money, weapons, training in using our built weapons etc., but seldom of what the man in the street needs. Wars are always about "power" over the people. So we automatically deal with the one's who we think has the power; which is not always correct and may blow up into our face as is now the case.We need someone else than Kerry; a person who came from the middle east and was educated there. Don't show your shoe soles while sitting there; that is an insult, for instance.
    I don't know. I am a pretty big fan of Kerry and think he is doing a great job as Secretary of State. He's far less of a hawk than Hillary was and that is paying dividends in Obama's second term. Kerry has plenty of advisers to do some of the dirty work in Middle-Eastern diplomacy, but Kerry himself has to play a major role. That is the whole point of having a Secretary of State. If Obama appointed someone else to do the negotiations to bring about peace then the only thing we would hear about from the media is that Kerry was sidelined.
    "Jared" sorry I think he is way too arrogant; he's from the same school as McCain; both are Vietnam buddies.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote:"Jared" sorry I think he is way too arrogant; he's from the same school as McCain; both are Vietnam buddies.
    Are you able to name one public servant on either side of the aisle who isn't arrogant? Having an exaggerated sense of self is a requirement to participate in our federal government. You might be able to come up with a few local and state officials who aren't arrogant people, but I pretty much guarantee that every single federal official, elected or not, is quite arrogant. It's pretty much a requirement in order for you to be able to work in D.C.

    You are correct that McCain and Kerry both served in Vietnam, but are incorrect that they are Vietnam 'buddies.' McCain was a prisoner of war and went on to become one of our nations top war hawks. It doesn't matter what the issue is, war is always the answer with him. I can come up with hundreds of quotes of McCain calling for us to bomb this country or that country; invade this country or that country.

    On the other hand, Kerry spoke eloquently against the Vietnam War and delivered testimony to Congress as a representative of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. Sure, he voted to authorize the Iraq conflict, but he did so with the caveat that he expected the Bush Administration to build a coalition and get United Nations approval. The Bush Administration decided to go a different route after Secretary Powell's disastrous United Nations speech. It was too late after that.

    Kerry is a great Secretary of State. He would have been a great President, as well.