Forum Thread

"war" with ISIS

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  • Center Left
    Independent
    New Port Richey, FL
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    One can only speculate about the reason(s) for the apparent 180 degree change in the President's orientation towards engaging in foreign conflicts. Reason suggests that a force of 10-30 thousand terrorists (latest estimates vary) in Iraq and Syria do not represent a clear and present danger to the homeland or vital American interests. The heinous nature of the broadcast atrocities have clearly enraged many and inflamed emotions throughout the country and the world. The righteous indignation of the American public seems to have moved the attitudes of the country away from the "war fatigue" that characterized most of the feedback from the opinion polls. The latest polls suggest that a majority of the American public supports some kind of military intervention in the Middle East.

    Given the irrational, single minded obstructionist track record of the American Congress over the last six years of the Obama presidency one wonders if the strategy of the White House could be sophisticated enough to appear to want to engage militarily precisely to activate that obstructionism and force the Congress to debate the issue and take a vote in hopes that they might end up in the same place as the British Parliament when they voted against engaging in the Syrian civil war. Hope springs eternal.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    The problem is that US intervention in the Middle East is exactly what has been causing most of the groups to pop up. We are in an awful situation now where we really can't leave but everything we touch over there goes to hell.

    What are you suggesting we do?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Zach F Wrote: The problem is that US intervention in the Middle East is exactly what has been causing most of the groups to pop up. We are in an awful situation now where we really can't leave but everything we touch over there goes to hell.

    What are you suggesting we do?
    Not that I have a suggestion ( the complications in that area prevent me from doing so) but Obama came with the suggestion to arm the other rebels in Syria. Wow!! I'm amazed. I guess everyone is forgetting that Syria actually is run by Assad who gets his weapons from Russia and others.

    First of all he (Assad) wants to get rid of all the rebels including ISIS; so if we bomb ISIS he may like that (gives him more room) however if we give the other rebels more fire power it puts him back into the same position. So which ever way it will be a no win situation for him. He may ask Russia for help; which they likely love to give. So I'm affraid that Obama's suggestion not only cost us more ( giving weapons to a non paying entity) with the same end result or worse. Also these (moderate?) rebels are still Muslims and in the end may still hate our guts and turn against us.
    In other words we made this mess (Saddam Hussein is laughing in his grave) but we really do not have a sound solution to get peace in that area for a long time; the power plays will continue. Like they say in Dutch. Ping Kassa (the cash register rings; it will drain ours)
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    Arming rebels has never once turned out good for the US. It went bad with the Taliban. it went bad with Al Qaeda. It went bad with Contra. It went bad with Iran. It went bad with Iraq. It's going bad with Israel. It went bad in Vietnam.

    Odd how sending weapons of war to an area doesn't help bring about peace.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Zach,you are absolutely right on.
    The latest: they beheaded now a British aid worker; of course there was a lot of discussion on CNN about that. The only guy who made sense was an ex CIA operator Robert Beard; he's got it right; he says the same thing as I said many times; they are a "pure" Jihad and even kill other Muslims if they do not conform to their "clean" form of Islam. I guess the US nor Britain still do not understand that those peoples lives are worth nothing in that Jihad and commit suicide with bombs strapped to their bodies etc..
    Like 9/11 the terrorists themselves did not care if they died; the same in this ISIS "war"; they just want to draw in the US and Britain; they don't care themselves to be killed as long as they can take some westeners with them; they succeeded in Iraq before (6000 plus of our soldiers) so they hope to at least meet that goal again. Therefore Obama's initial plan was the best (no boots on the ground, so only few casualties) however the stupid "warhawks" here may get their way and fall for this trap and then exactly as predicted by me; the dead bodies will come home as before; so called "winning" will never be the case, as some dumb generals believe.
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    The so-called "Christians" of the radical right-wing GOP never learn --- that Christ was the "Prince of PEACE" -- Not the prince of War. So right there, it proves that the GOP form of "religion" is totally False. Also, the teachings of Jesus tell them to "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you." It is all written out (clearly) HOW WE WILL BE JUDGED, on Judgment Day -- exactly, in great detail.

    I did not intend to get into religion, but I will try to make it brief & painless. [ISAIAH 9:6 -- "Unto us a child is born, the government shall be upon his shoulders, & his name shall be Wonderful Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, & THE PRINCE OF PEACE."]

    The most important, {but largely unknown} part of the BIBLE, is MATTHEW 25: 31 - 46. It TELLS US in great detail, EXACTLY HOW YOU WILL BE JUDGED on Judgment Day. And Catholics will probably be shocked. For it never mentions going to confession, or saying a rosary, or praying to the Virgin Mary. -- The CRITERIA for going to Heaven is really quite simple:

    Your soul is judged by how you treat your fellow man. For instance: IF you saw a beggar asking for food, & you gave him some food, you are doing a good thing to be worthy of heaven. If someone was thirsty & asked you for water, & if you gave it to him, you have done a deed worthy of going to heaven. Similarly, if a person was sick, or in prison, & you visited them & helped them to get well, you have followed the rules Jesus taught us. If a person was naked, & you gave them clothing, or if a person was homeless (or a stranger) & you offered them shelter, you have done the right Christian things to be worthy of heaven. [the words of Jesus Christ, as seen in Matthew 25].

    NOW compare this to the way the "average Republican" faces the world. If they see any poor people who are hungry, thirsty, jobless, sick, homeless, or naked, --- the right-wing GOP would probably kick them out in the street to starve. They (GOP) would most certainly cut all their Food Stamps & Medicare, & foreclose on their mortgage. (MATTHEW 25, we see that the GOP do NOT resemble true "Christians" in any way}.

    Then, Jesus is the Prince of PEACE, so take a peek how Republicans manipulate public policy in the WAR arena. Just a brief reminder how George "W" Bush (#43) took power over the US Govt in 2000. A GOP planning group (PNAC) had been plotting for years how to wage eternal WAR to drive our economy, & take over foreign oil wells, for: Power, Greed, & Profit -- (NOT at all like the Prince of PEACE, Jesus).

    In his campaign for the Presidency, George "W" actually had right-wing Preachers saying "GOD WANTS George "W" to be our President."

    SUCH UTTER LYING BLASPHEMY has never before defiled any churches in America. In the first place, it is proven that Geo "W" Bush "rigged" 2 federal elections, in the years 2000 & 2004. He stole the elections away from Al Gore, and John Kerry. Do you remember about all of the "hanging chads" on the Florida ballots? Just by "coincidence" (ahem) this happened in Florida (where Georgie's brother Jeb, just happened to be the Governor) & had the power to "stop the ballot count" over & over, until everyone was totally frustrated, & then they threw the whole outcome of the election over to the Supreme Court. (For the first time in US history). Another strange "coincidence" (ahem) is that Georgie's father had just "packed" the Supreme Court with his "cronies" -- Daddy Bush (#41)_"appointed" them for lifetime tenure, while Bush was still
    in office as President. So now, 8 yrs later, these Supreme Court Justices "owed" Daddy Bush a favor, so -- "W" Bush WON the election 2000.

    Isn't it AMAZING how GOD WORKS --- in the Republican Party? (Who knew?) Bribery, "rigging" the ballot count, & having a few crooked preachers saying that "God wants Bush to be President" --- and VOILA' --- we are on a trajectory to Eternal War & OIL WELLS. Now all we need to do, to honor God for this miracle --- is to invade & bomb the Hell out of an innocent nation (IRAQ) & Kill their elected Leader, Saddam Hussein, & start pumping that crude petroleum as fast as we possibly can. (Slightly "stolen" OIL, but WHO CARES?) God must WANT to make the USA into a nation of Thieves? (NO I think not). Does God want us to commit deplorable "war crimes"? NO... But WHO DOES?

    AND BY THE WAY, Georgie must have "flunked" most of his "History" & "Geography" classes, (not to mention his BIBLE STUDY CLASSES} or
    he might have known that IRAQ was the location of the Biblical "Garden of Eden" where God placed Adam & Eve (his first creation) to live for
    Eternity. (But you know about the Snake & the Apple, which changed human history, forever). HOWEVER, we might suppose that this Garden of Eden was still a HOLY PLACE to God. Maybe a bit of nostalgia for him. BUT of course, Georgie could only think of BOMBING the entire Nation of IRAQ into rubble, & destroying its ancient culture & artifacts in their museum, (of great value to world archaeologists & scientists). But what
    else should we expect? After all, Georgie freely admits that he was only a "C" student. (Golly, why don't they even have IQ tests for guys that want to be the United States President)? Shouldn't there be SOME qualifications for that job?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    eternal flame Wrote: The so-called "Christians" of the radical right-wing GOP never learn --- that Christ was the "Prince of PEACE" -- Not the prince of War. So right there, it proves that the GOP form of "religion" is totally False. Also, the teachings of Jesus tell them to "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you." It is all written out (clearly) HOW WE WILL BE JUDGED, on Judgment Day -- exactly, in great detail.

    I did not intend to get into religion, but Trust Me, I will make it brief and painless. [ISAIAH 9:6 -- "Unto us a child is born, the government shall be upon his shoulders, & his name shall be Wonderful Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, & THE PRINCE OF PEACE."]

    The most important, {but largely unknown} part of the BIBLE, is MATTHEW 25: 31 - 46. It TELLS US in great detail, EXACTLY HOW YOU WILL BE JUDGED on Judgment Day. And Catholics will probably be shocked. For it never mentions going to confession, or saying a rosary, or praying to the Virgin Mary. (In fact praying to statues is totally forbidden). The CRITERIA for going to Heaven is really quite simple:

    Your soul is judged by how you treat your fellow man. IF you saw a beggar asking for food, & you gave him some food, you are doing a good thing to be worthy of heaven. If someone was thirsty & asked you for water, & if you gave it to him, you have done a deed worthy of going to heaven. If a person was sick, & you helped him/her to get well, during that ordeal, you are worthy of heaven. If someone was in prison, & you took time to visit him, you did the right thing to go to heaven. If a person was naked, & you gave them some clothing, you have done the right thing to get into heaven. If a person was homeless (or a stranger) & you offered them shelter, you did the right Christian things to get saved.

    NOW compare this to the way the "average Republican" faces the world. If they see any poor people who are hungry, thirsty, jobless, homeless, sick or naked, --- the right-wing GOP would probably kick them out in the street to starve. They (GOP) would most certainly cut all their Food Stamps & Medicare, and foreclose on their mortgage. (From MATTHEW 25, we see that GOP do NOT resemble true "Christians" in any way}.

    Then, Jesus is the Prince of PEACE, so take a peek how Republicans manipulate public policy in the WAR arena. Just a brief reminder how George "W" Bush (#43) took power over the US Govt in 2000. A GOP planning group (PNAC) had been plotting for years how to wage eternal WAR to drive our economy, & take over foreign oil wells, for: Power, Greed, & Profit -- (NOT at all like the Prince of PEACE, Jesus).

    In his campaign for the Presidency, George "W" actually had right-wing Preachers saying "GOD WANTS George "W" to be our President."

    SUCH UTTER LYING BLASPHEMY has never before defiled any churches in America. In the first place, it is proven that Geo "W" Bush "rigged" 2 federal elections, in the years 2000 & 2004. He stole the elections away from Al Gore, and John Kerry. Do you remember about all of the "hanging chads" on the Florida ballots? Just by "coincidence" (ahem) this happened in Florida (where Georgie's brother Jeb, just happened to be the Governor) & had the power to "stop the ballot count" over & over, until everyone was totally frustrated, & then they threw the whole outcome of the election over to the Supreme Court. (For the first time in US history). Another strange "coincidence" (ahem) is that Georgie's father had just "packed" the Supreme Court with his "cronies" -- Daddy Bush (#41)_"appointed" them for lifetime tenure, while Bush was still
    in office as President. So now, 8 yrs later, these Supreme Court Justices "owed" Daddy Bush a favor, so -- "W" Bush WON the election 2000.

    Isn't it AMAZING how GOD WORKS --- in the Republican Party? (Who knew?) Bribery, "rigging" the ballot count, & having a few crooked preachers saying that "God wants for Bush to be President" --- and VOILA' --- we are on a trajectory to Eternal War & OIL WELLS. Now all we need to do, to honor God for this miracle --- is to invade & bomb the Hell out of an innocent nation (IRAQ) & Kill their elected Leader, Saddam Hussein, & start pumping that crude petroleum as fast as we possibly can. (Slightly "stolen" OIL, but WHO CARES?) God must WANT to make the USA into a dishonorable Thief, (or is it Georgie who wants to make us all into criminal thieves?).

    AND BY THE WAY, Georgie must have "flunked" most of his "History" & "Geography" classes, (not to mention his BIBLE STUDY CLASSES} or
    he might have known that IRAQ was the location of the Biblical "Garden of Eden" where God placed Adam & Eve (his first creation) to live for
    Eternity. (But you know about the Apple & the Snake, which changed human history, forever). HOWEVER, we might suppose that this Garden of Eden was still a HOLY PLACE to God. Maybe a bit of nostalgia, for him. BUT of course, Georgie could only think of BOMBING the entire Nation of IRAQ into rubble, & destroying its ancient culture & artifacts in their museum, (of great value to archaeologists & scientists). But
    what else should we expect? After all, Georgie freely admits that He was only a "C" student. (Don't they have IQ tests to be the Prez)?
    "Eternal" I guess you mean it all well and are a good person I think. However no "god" or "bibles" are involved; this whole thing is "human" created
    If you do not believe me please ask this whatever "god" if he checked his I-Pad somewhere in the sky and answers you back that he is aware of the whole mess humans make of this globe. Please let me know when you spoke with "it"? "him"? "Green Blob"? " Allah"?
    Anyway your friend the Pope said that WWIII is coming; did he get that news from up there, like you? Shaking my old head again and again.
    By the way what has all of these "bible" quotes anything to do with the "mess" in the middle east? Even the GOP has no answer, let alone Jesus.
    Statements like "Amazing on how God works" ,are pure ridiculous the whatever up there has no clue what humanity does let alone knows the human created word "works". Sorry all the stuff you write is "human" originated; they do not write on Mars yet.
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    As you well know, Dutch, fully 80% of American citizens describe themselves as "Christians" --- so it is not at all odd to pay attention to the religious faith & beliefs of most Americans. Even the Founders who wrote our Constitution were mostly Christians & a few Deists. So just because you have chosen to "not believe" does not make you an authority on the topic. I believe you have every right to be an atheist, but not the right to criticize most Americans, every time the word Bible or God appears in any sentence on this Forum. If you hate most Americans for their ideas or their faith, you are free to preach your own ideas on the street, or print bulletins & distribute them. But it is not factual to say that anyone who believes in God or the Bible is stupid, or their faith is not valid. Data from CIA statistics: 80% of USA = 252,800,000 Americans are Christians. (Almost 253 Million Americans are Christians !!!). That can't be just a "fringe" minority. So they are a force to reckon with.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    eternal flame Wrote: As you well know, Dutch, fully 80% of American citizens describe themselves as "Christians" --- so it is not at all odd to pay attention to the religious faith & beliefs of most Americans. Even the Founders who wrote our Constitution were mostly Christians & a few Deists. So just because you have chosen to "not believe" does not make you an authority on the topic. I believe you have every right to be an atheist, but not the right to criticize most Americans, every time the word Bible or God appears in any sentence on this Forum. If you hate most Americans for their ideas or their faith, you are free to preach your own ideas on the street, or print bulletins & distribute them. But it is not factual to say that anyone who believes in God or the Bible is stupid, or their faith is not valid. Data from CIA statistics: 80% of USA = 252,800,000 Americans are Christians.
    I can't help that all these people refuse to think; just answer the question; Did you ever talk to anything up there. Ever had any contact with anything beyond this globe? What is the only "living thing" in the universe which writes in "worldly" languages not known in outerspace? Did anyone from up there ever interfere in human made wars? I can't help that people here refuse to think. Sorry your 80% are "herd" followers; want to "belong" to something.

    Do me a favor and start analysing everything about humans on this tiny planet, which is only one of millions of simular "bodies" floating in space.
    Nothing up there has any interest in "humans" or this planet; people are on their own and determine their own destiny, health, wars, death, etc.
    You really think EBOLA was engineered up there? ISIS was created up there? Bibles were written up there? Jesus wrote books?(never wrote one word!)
    Wake up and smell the earthly roses. HUMANS DO EVERYTHING ON THIS PLANET; "HUMAN" CREATED "GOD"S DON'T.

    By the way your religious buddy AMC claims that this ISIS "war" is non -religeous; so why drag in all this "bible" nonsense; I guess none of the warring parties there care about this whatsoever; neither does outerspace or the universe.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    I'll take comments like that any day Dutch, Thank You. However, go to church and take your fan PGR with you. You'll learn some "Good News", which I prefer John 3:16 the best. Yes, I believe the current ISIL uprising is not about religion, because no loving God would condone the horrific acts these animals do to other human beings. Even their, so called Koran scripture does not call for this behavior. Although both in the Bible and the Old Testament, similar passages do tell stories of murdering the "infidel", but that is not the character "GOD" wants people to behave.

    ISIL is only about genocide, mayhem, intimidation and murder. There is nothing religious and God loving about this (ISIS) culture, only hatred and killing. It is easy for me to go against my belief and promote extinction as the only course of action for ISIS. Even I stray from the teachings of Christianity.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: I'll take comments like that any day Dutch, Thank You. However, go to church and take your fan PGR with you. You'll learn some "Good News", which I prefer John 3:16 the best. Yes, I believe the current ISIL uprising is not about religion, because no loving God would condone the horrific acts these animals do to other human beings. Even their, so called Koran scripture does not call for this behavior. Although both in the Bible and the Old Testament, similar passages do tell stories of murdering the "infidel", but that is not the character "GOD" wants people to behave.

    ISIL is only about genocide, mayhem, intimidation and murder. There is nothing religious and God loving about this (ISIS) culture, only hatred and killing. It is easy for me to go against my belief and promote extinction as the only course of action for ISIS. Even I stray from the teachings of Christianity.
    AMC, good post; I agree with you for a change; the only thing is what you still have to realize that these "books" are used as a cover up for human shortcomings, as you clearly stated. Hiding behind 2000 /3000 year old texts is kind of silly; all of this is still human creation, whatever you call it.
    ISIS is indeed like Cameron said "monsters"; but they still use an "old" book as backstop, like a lot of Christian do here as well but in a different more sneaky/hypocrite way.Thanks again, hope you agree "god"s have nothing to do with this; Bush (a human) created this mess; not any imaginary "god" or Marsians.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Sorry, my friends, I won't be going to church with Dutch or anyone else. I have much better, worthwhile ways to pass the time of day without having a bunch of brainwashed, narrow minded bigots trying to bring me down to their level of thinking and misinformation. As far as I'm concerned, Jesus is nothing more than a made up, mythical figure fabricated to explain the unexplainable to weak mined, uneducated, narrow minded people. Belief in Jesus (or God for that matter) is no more valid or rational than believing in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause or Cinderella. If it makes you feel good by fooling yourself into these beliefs, fine, go ahead and do it but don't expect me to be a party to it or even accept it as rational or truthful!
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    PGR, you disappoint me; so you don't want to go to church with me? May be we should; then we can put up our hands and ask the "minister/priest" some interesting questions; like did you ever meet or seen or talked to anything from outerspace? Did you ever see sperm fallout of the sky right into an unknown middle east woman who was milking the goat? Ever found any writings of that human Jesus guy himself? Why did this guy only have male friends (was he gay?) How did this guy walk on water? (on a paddle board?) How did his dead body float to where? (did they fill it with helium?) If it was heaven, pls give me the GPS coordinates. Did any doctor or scientist ever see anything float out of dead bodies like a "soul" thing? what does that soul have for storage capacity, how does it download from a dead brain? Where does that "dead" soul get its energy from; no batteries, I guess otherwise they would be seen floating somewhere etc etc. Do outerspace people write; what language if so? Do they write "bibles"and Korans?

    But anyway we would have a huge party in church, or the priest throws us out way before that, because they will refuse to listen, otherwise they can no longer can sell snake oil. or have an tax free income etc.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Hey Dutch, we already "Know all the answers" we could teach them a thing or three!!!
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pr Wrote: Hey Dutch, we already "Know all the answers" we could teach them a thing or three!!!
    Three things only? no probably plenty more!! But I must say the Pope has "studied"; what? I don't know, but he says WWIII is coming, so if people believe everything he says, start digging your " safe wine cellar" (for you "beer" cellar)
    Note: don't have it too close to a church because Isis will attack that first and rebuilt it into a Mosque. I hate to have to walk in a "shelaba" and have my face covered in 93 decrees, but if that helps to keep my Porsche going then not too bad; I'll design an airco into the top of the black snowmask.
    By the way do these Muslims share "heaven" with the Christians? Or is there a huge fence between them? (like Israel and the Palestinians) If not then may be that explains the "flare" on the sun (a previous human created "god") that they are also fighting in "hell" because a "fence" would burn down immediately.