jaredsxtn Wrote: No, the Arabs were not offered 'most of the land of Israel' in 1947. The 1947 United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was rejected by the Arabs because they were being forcibly uprooted from their land in order to create a new country for holocaust survivors. There were not millions of Jews in what is now Israel for thousands of years.
Jews began migrating to Palestine in the 1880's during a time called the First Aliyah. They were fleeing Eastern Europe and were actually welcomed by the Palestinians who were living there. The next wave came in the early 1900's during a time called the Second Aliyah. They, too, were welcomed by the Palestinians who were living there until they started realizing that many of these Jews were Zionists who wanted to forcibly remove them from their land. This feeling was exasperated after the Jews began collaborating with the British authorities after they forcibly took over Palestine in 1917. Jews made up only 11 percent of the population of Palestine at the time, but had a powerful partner in the British Empire.
You are incorrect when it comes to your statement about '50% of the present day Israeli Jews are from Arab countries who were kicked out in 1948 and beyond.' The Israeli's forcibly removed more than 700,000 Palestinians from their land in a period known as the Nakba. This was more than 50 percent of all Palestinians living on these disputed lands.
Labeling anyone who questions Israels indiscriminate killing of thousands of innocent civilians an anti-semite is just another use of a pro-Israeli person leveling Ad hominem personal attacks against people who challenge them.
micpt Wrote: This discussion needs a more factual basis. I respectfully submit some important information about the establishment of the modern day state of Israel. First off, there has always been a strong biblical Jewish connection to the land of Israel. If you are a Jew or a Christian then this is in your bible. This is beyond dispute. Now fast forward to 1948. There was always a Jewish presence in this region. Before 1948 the British did control this area then known as Palestine. However there was never any such country known as Palestine. There were some Arab tribes living there under the Ottoman Empire. From 1948 to 1967 there were Arab citizens of Gaza (Egypt) and Judea and Samaria (west bank - Jordan). Miraculously they became "Palestinians" overnight in 1967. In 1947 the Arabs were offered most of the land of Israel but rejected it and instead invaded with several Arab armies trying to drive the Jews into the ocean. Numerous times Israel has offered them land for a Palestinian state which they've rejected numerous times. Yes there were holocaust survivors who populated Israel after the war. However 50% of the present day Israeli Jews are from Arab countries who were kicked out in 1948 and beyond. Bottom line is that if you don't recognize the Jewish state of Israel you are an antisemite. I can't argue with you on that.
Schmidt Wrote: I agree with all of Jared's comments. And it is difficult to follow up on a lot of the past events because of a revisionist history being marketed to not only the Jewish emigrants from various European countries, but also the American public. Let me add this to the perspective though.
The indigenous people of the area called Palestine or Biblical Israel are the Semites. As DNA studies have shown, there is not much difference genetically between all the indigenous people of the area no matter what you call them...Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians...same, same.
Epiphenom: The shared genetic heritage of Jews and Palestinians
"The good news is that the genetics of Arabs and Jews have been pretty extensively researched. The classic study dates to 2000, from a team lead by Michael Hammer of University of Arizona. They looked at Y-chromosome haplotypes - this is the genetic material passed from father to son down the generations.
"What they revealed was that Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population, and that Palestinians are slap bang in the middle of the different Jewish populations (as shown in this figure).
"Another team, lead by Almut Nebel at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem, took a closer look in 2001. They found that Jewish lineages essentially bracket Muslim Kurds, but they were also very closely related to Palestinians. In fact, what their analysis suggested was that Palestinians were identical to Jews, but with a small mix of Arab genes - what you would expect if they were originally from the same stock, but that Palestinians had mixed a little with Arab immigrants."
However, the Jews that arrived in the various Aliyahs from Europe do not share the same DNA as those peoples that remained in the area. They have a mixture of DNA from their diaspora local and to varying degrees some from the Middle East...but their Middle East DNA content dwarfs that of the "Palestinians". In other words, if they claim the Right of Return based on genetics, then a much stronger case can be made for the "Right to Stay" by the Palestinians. Current day Israel is the Palestinian homeland...it was taken away from them by force.
As various scholars have pointed out, the eviction and massacre of Palestinians was conducted not by the indigenous Jews but rather by the invaders, mostly from Europe, and their terrorist militant group Irgun.
But here's some more history to consider. In the year 632 AD, Muslims arrived in Palestine defeating the Byzantine Empire's forces. Three years later in 637 AD, Omar Ibn al-Khattab entered Jerusalem after the siege. He allowed Jews to return to Palestine for the first time since the 500-year ban from the Holy Land and allowed them to practice their religion freely. Except for the period, 1099 - 1187 (Christian rule), Muslims were control of Palestine from 637 AD to 1918. During that 1200 year period of Muslim rule including the Golden Age of Islam, the Jews and Muslims lived peacefully together. They even fought together against the Christians during the Crusades. That is not surprising because they are all Semites and share the same DNA.
Fast forward to the period when the diaspora emigrated out of Europe into Palestine. They were regarded by foreigners, even by the indigenous Jews. So from the 1940s up to the present day, there has been nothing but turmoil created by the presence of the invaders. While the Jews lived in peace under Muslim rule for some 1200 years, they have yet to find one year of peace under Jewish rule.
The Jewish state of Israel will never know peace...never as long as they subject the Palestinians to intolerable inhumane conditions. The ball is in Israel's court. If they want peace, then they have to start abiding by the UN resolutions.
Zach F Wrote: Your argument is a bit reversed. Israel is the that is doing a huge majority of the persecution. Driving Palestinians from their homes and committing war crimes. The unabashedly take territory and terrorize Palestinians. The Palestinians, in return do a bit of the same, but they are not equipped nor have the resources or the backing to do it on the scale of Israel.
Both sides are have been in the wrong, but a very disproportional amount of the wrongdoing is on the shoulders of Israel. It will be extremely hard to erase 70 years of hatred and bring peace to the area quickly. We need to take small steps.