Forum Thread

Obama requests $3.7 billion to stem tide of children refugees

Reply to ThreadDisplaying 1 - 15 of 62 1 2 3 4 5 Next
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    USA Today, July 8, 2014: Obama seeks $3.7B to stem tide of kids crossing border

    "As thousands of children continue streaming across the nation's southwest border, the White House asked Congress on Tuesday for $3.7 billion to improve security along the border, provide better housing for the children while they're in custody and to speed up their deportation proceedings. The White House also wants to increase assistance to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, where most of the children are coming from, to help them stop the rush of people leaving there and to improve their ability to receive the expected influx of deported children."

    Can anyone see Boehner's House of Representatives approving this request? Certainly some will refuse to approve one more penny to help what they perceive as an Obama problem. And the longer it plays out the more political it becomes. Fox News is already propagandizing it blaming Obama.

    And if they do consider it, it will be full of caveats, amendments and offsets that will likely result in a Presidential veto...which then also can be used for more political fodder. Everything that Boehner's Republicans do is political...

    Republicans in Congress in many ways embrace the ugly and heated rhetoric of the protesters in Murietta, California. It plays to their base.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote: USA Today, July 8, 2014: Obama seeks $3.7B to stem tide of kids crossing border

    "As thousands of children continue streaming across the nation's southwest border, the White House asked Congress on Tuesday for $3.7 billion to improve security along the border, provide better housing for the children while they're in custody and to speed up their deportation proceedings. The White House also wants to increase assistance to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, where most of the children are coming from, to help them stop the rush of people leaving there and to improve their ability to receive the expected influx of deported children."

    Can anyone see Boehner's House of Representatives approving this request? Certainly some will refuse to approve one more penny to help what they perceive as an Obama problem. And the longer it plays out the more political it becomes. Fox News is already propagandizing it blaming Obama.

    And if they do consider it, it will be full of caveats, amendments and offsets that will likely result in a Presidential veto...which then also can be used for more political fodder. Everything that Boehner's Republicans do is political...

    Republicans in Congress in many ways embrace the ugly and heated rhetoric of the protesters in Murietta, California. It plays to their base.
    "Schmidt" I wrote something about this before; the way this government throws around "money" is absolute ridiculous; stick your finger in the air and come with guesstimates to satisfy again the corruption; lots of "figures" are waiting to collect from it. Solving this problem with money alone will only make it worse; corruption reigns!!
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Indeed. Last week we were told that they were going to request 2 billion. This week it is nearly 4 billion.

    Next week????? Who knows?

    Another 2 billion? Or 5 billion?

    Solving problems ..."with money alone"... is EXACTLY how our government works. Or doesn't work, would be more accurate.

    Just look at public schools as just one example...all they want is more money every year and what are the results?

    A few billion here and a few billion there...the more money involved means more corruption, waste, fraud there will be.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    I don't understand why we( the USA) just deduct the amount of money needed for this illegal children from any $Aid packages that we send those respective countries?
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Why are these children being referred to as refugee's and not illegal immigrants , they are not being oppressed by their government nor are they being slaughtered by any type of sectarian violence, so other than being ruled by incompetents and it's subsequent poverty, why are they so designated?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Looking at the situation; I'm not surprised; such is happening all over the globe; the "have's" and "have not's" Mostly the have "not's" have little education, but have the most kids; which was the "old" form of support for their parents; most kids under these situations have to earn bread on the table at a very young age. Due to the schrinking world related to news and media, these kids smell the "roses" elsewhere. So they "move". However if the "breeding" continues; then this problem will only get worse. China tried this with allowing only two kids per family; I'm not quite sure if it actually did work; may be "schmidt" can research that. However overpopulation may have effects on "nature"; it may step in with more disasters and new bacteria or virusses; and control it that way, or the "human" way by means of wars.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    I'll make several comments.

    First, these children do indeed fit the category of refugees because they are fleeing violence and possible death in their homeland. And as refugees they simply cross the border at some point and seek out the border guards for their own safety. Unlike undocumented immigrants that are hiding from the border guards, these kids are not hiding. They simply cross the border at some unmanned point, and look for border guards. And once they are in US soil, the border guards cannot send them back across the border. It's as simple as that...it's also the law.

    Of course the USA could set up fences across the entire border with Mexico and man it with hundreds of thousands of National Guard troops with guns and bullets and drones. What would that cost? It's stupid to even think about it...and the political repercussions around the world will be enormous. The French will ask for their Statue of Liberty back.

    The economic conditions in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatamala are abysmal. Parents are fearing for the death or capture of their children, so many are sending their kids across the border for the safety. They are not sending them here to work.

    The economic conditions are a result of drug cartels setting up shop in these countries, having been evicted from Mexico. The way to stop the violence is to stop the drug smuggling into the USA. That is easier said than done as many of the public officials in these countries are also corrupt and have been bought by the cartels...or the cartels have installed their own people directly.

    I don't have a solution for that, except to say that America's drug problem is not confined to the USA. It's tentacles extend deep into Central America.

    CNN: Drug cartels are causing a refugee crisis

    Regarding the population growth rates in these countries, they are not that high. According to the CIA, the fertility rates in these countries are as follows:

    Guatamala 2.99
    Honduras 2.86
    Mexico 2.29
    El Salvador 1.95

    USA 2.01

    These compare with several African countries with fertility rates in the range of 5 or 6. A fertility rate of between 2.1 and 3 (depending on the economic and health conditions in the country) is needed for zero population growth. USA's fertility rate of 2.01 guarantees that our population will decline in the future unless it is supplemented with immigration.

    Oh and the Netherlands fertility rate is 1.78. They will need immigration (perhaps from Africa) to avoid population decline.

    The birth rate statistics for these countries pretty much rank with the fertility rates. African countries top the list.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Does declaring oneself a refugee make you a refugee, the crime rate in those Central American countries has not really gone up drastically enough to warrant refugee status, given the state of Chicago do the children there qualify for refugee status in some other country, like Canada,?
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    johnnycee Wrote: Does declaring oneself a refugee make you a refugee, the crime rate in those Central American countries has not really gone up drastically enough to warrant refugee status, given the state of Chicago do the children there qualify for refugee status in some other country, like Canada,?
    No, declaring yourself a refugee doesn't automatically confer refugee status. That's what the courts are for, and if the children do not qualify they are sent back.

    But the courts are overloaded, and it can take years for individual cases to be decided. In the meantime, children must be held in the protective custody of the Health and Human Services department...THAT'S THE LAW! That department often places the children in foster homes or with a relative while their case is waiting to be heard. No ambiguity there whatsoever.

    And NO...the city of Chicago does not compare anywhere near the violence and homicide rate in these Central American countries.

    New Republic: Honduras's Murder Rate Is Six Times Worse Than Chicago's. How Can We Send Children Back to That?

    "In 2013, Chicago had 15 murders per 100,000 residents, versus 90 in Honduras. In the country's second-largest city, San Pedro Sula, the murder rate is 173 per 100,000 residents—earning the city the title of the world's murder capital."

    Governor Perry is asking President Obama for 1,000 more national Guard troops to help secure the border. And just what the F**k will those National Guard troops do? I suppose they can stand watch on the banks of the Rio Grande and use their rifle butts to push all the children crossing the river back into the river as they climbed up the bank. Oh but that would be illegal under US law because that bank on the US side is US soil, and once they cross the midpoint of the river, they are technically on US soil and subject to US laws.

    So what then...shoot them before they get to the midway point of the river? Honestly, those 1,000 more National Guard troops are the stupidest idea I have ever heard...not surprising coming from the mouth of Rick Perry.

    Or does he expect the National Guard to be judge and jury and decide the children's status without the courts...i.e. the rifle butt solution?

    It is not an easy problem, and certainly Republicans have politicized the problem while not lifting a hand to help. We don't need more border guards because they are powerless to stop refugees once they step on US soil.

    In the meantime, you have misinformed idiots in Murietta, California inciting rage and hate...with the mayor's help. On the other hand, I am proud of the residents of Dallas, Texas that are stepping up and working with the government to alleviate the problem. They represent real Americans.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    I can understand the frustration of those Texas residents because of the US Government allowing them to have no say in how to pay for the social services that these illegal immigrants would need, and also the manner in which these illegals were dumped on them, had there been some type of communication between the State and the Feds perhaps a lot of this could have been avoided. I still feel that those countries that these people are fleeing should assist in their returning and reuniting with their family, otherwise U.S.A. AID dollars should be deducted to help defray the costs.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    johnnycee Wrote: I can understand the frustration of those Texas residents because of the US Government allowing them to have no say in how to pay for the social services that these illegal immigrants would need, and also the manner in which these illegals were dumped on them, had there been some type of communication between the State and the Feds perhaps a lot of this could have been avoided. I still feel that those countries that these people are fleeing should assist in their returning and reuniting with their family, otherwise U.S.A. AID dollars should be deducted to help defray the costs.
    johnnycee --

    I don't follow what you are saying. The federal government covers all the costs of administering to both illegal aliens and refugees. Those illegal aliens crossing the border to seek work or other activities with no legitimate claim to be a refugee are quickly dealt with by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Most of the detainees are captured at the border by the US Border Patrol and turned back immediately after a short interview by the Border Patrol agents. This mostly applies to Mexicans including Mexican children. Others are found by ICE throughout the USA as a result investigations of employers and other agencies.

    The refugee children and sometimes their parents are dealt with entirely differently. Those from the three Central American countries (Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatamala) have a different legal status than those that claim Mexican citizenship. They come under the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008, and are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement (a part of the Department of Health and Human Services) after first being screened by Border Patrol agents. Border Patrol can only hold them for up to 72 hours before they are transferred to HHS. For more information, refer to this excellent article.

    VOX, July 11, 2014: 14 facts that help explain America's child-migrant crisis

    I should also point out that the Texas Health and Human Services Commission Office of Immigration and Refugee Affairs’ (OIRA) has been working closely with the federal government agencies to cope with the large influx of refugee children...but the sheer numbers has meant that they too are overwhelmed. That's why faith based groups in Dallas and another areas are stepping forward to help and alleviate the crunch at the border. And as noted in the Texas website, Funding for OIRA is provided through the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Refugee Resettlement. Texas tax payers are not carrying the burden...the federal government is...US tax payers. So Johnnycee, you and I are helping to pay for the costs of administration and resettlement of these refugee children. I'm okay with that...are you?

    Oh and Texas residents are not being "dumped on" by illegal immigrants. Where did you get that idea?
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: I can understand the frustration of those Texas residents because of the US Government allowing them to have no say in how to pay for the social services that these illegal immigrants would need, and also the manner in which these illegals were dumped on them, had there been some type of communication between the State and the Feds perhaps a lot of this could have been avoided. I still feel that those countries that these people are fleeing should assist in their returning and reuniting with their family, otherwise U.S.A. AID dollars should be deducted to help defray the costs.
    johnnycee --

    I don't follow what you are saying. The federal government covers all the costs of administering to both illegal aliens and refugees. Those illegal aliens crossing the border to seek work or other activities with no legitimate claim to be a refugee are quickly dealt with by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Most of the detainees are captured at the border by the US Border Patrol and turned back immediately after a short interview by the Border Patrol agents. This mostly applies to Mexicans including Mexican children. Others are found by ICE throughout the USA as a result investigations of employers and other agencies.

    The refugee children and sometimes their parents are dealt with entirely differently. Those from the three Central American countries (Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatamala) have a different legal status than those that claim Mexican citizenship. They come under the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008, and are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement (a part of the Department of Health and Human Services) after first being screened by Border Patrol agents. Border Patrol can only hold them for up to 72 hours before they are transferred to HHS. For more information, refer to this excellent article.

    VOX, July 11, 2014: 14 facts that help explain America's child-migrant crisis

    I should also point out that the Texas Health and Human Services Commission Office of Immigration and Refugee Affairs’ (OIRA) has been working closely with the federal government agencies to cope with the large influx of refugee children...but the sheer numbers has meant that they too are overwhelmed. That's why faith based groups in Dallas and another areas are stepping forward to help and alleviate the crunch at the border. And as noted in the Texas website, Funding for OIRA is provided through the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Refugee Resettlement. Texas tax payers are not carrying the burden...the federal government is...US tax payers. So Johnnycee, you and I are helping to pay for the costs of administration and resettlement of these refugee children. I'm okay with that...are you?

    Oh and Texas residents are not being "dumped on" by illegal immigrants. Where did you get that idea?

  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    johnnycee Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: I can understand the frustration of those Texas residents because of the US Government allowing them to have no say in how to pay for the social services that these illegal immigrants would need, and also the manner in which these illegals were dumped on them, had there been some type of communication between the State and the Feds perhaps a lot of this could have been avoided. I still feel that those countries that these people are fleeing should assist in their returning and reuniting with their family, otherwise U.S.A. AID dollars should be deducted to help defray the costs.
    johnnycee --

    I don't follow what you are saying. The federal government covers all the costs of administering to both illegal aliens and refugees. Those illegal aliens crossing the border to seek work or other activities with no legitimate claim to be a refugee are quickly dealt with by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Most of the detainees are captured at the border by the US Border Patrol and turned back immediately after a short interview by the Border Patrol agents. This mostly applies to Mexicans including Mexican children. Others are found by ICE throughout the USA as a result investigations of employers and other agencies.

    The refugee children and sometimes their parents are dealt with entirely differently. Those from the three Central American countries (Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatamala) have a different legal status than those that claim Mexican citizenship. They come under the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008, and are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement (a part of the Department of Health and Human Services) after first being screened by Border Patrol agents. Border Patrol can only hold them for up to 72 hours before they are transferred to HHS. For more information, refer to this excellent article.

    VOX, July 11, 2014: 14 facts that help explain America's child-migrant crisis

    I should also point out that the Texas Health and Human Services Commission Office of Immigration and Refugee Affairs’ (OIRA) has been working closely with the federal government agencies to cope with the large influx of refugee children...but the sheer numbers has meant that they too are overwhelmed. That's why faith based groups in Dallas and another areas are stepping forward to help and alleviate the crunch at the border. And as noted in the Texas website, Funding for OIRA is provided through the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Refugee Resettlement. Texas tax payers are not carrying the burden...the federal government is...US tax payers. So Johnnycee, you and I are helping to pay for the costs of administration and resettlement of these refugee children. I'm okay with that...are you?

    Oh and Texas residents are not being "dumped on" by illegal immigrants. Where did you get that idea?

    As I stated previously I believe that a better mode of communication would have prevented a lot of this hostility expressed by these residents, it is heartwarming to see these faith based groups stepping up , as I think they should, but this children and not all of them are children, ,to me under 14 is a child, buts that's just me, anyway there is no proof that these children are nor being exploited by the sex trade, the common answer as to why they are coming here is to escape poverty and the violence that usually results from being poor, they are escaping totally incompetent or corrupt governments and not persecution on religious ,political , gender, or sex reasons, therefore they are not refugee's but illegal immigrants no matter how you care to dress it up, and they are being dumped on communities by reason of they have no say in the matter, this is nothing more than a back door amnesty policy, appealing to the compassionate nature of US citizens by allowing children to come here unescorted in quite a few cases and by claiming to reunite them with their family's already here, perhaps illegal also, does a disservice to the rest of the immigrants waiting on due process.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Okay Johnnycee. What "better mode of communication" are you talking about that would have prevented or alleviated this situation? It sounds like your solution is to immediately turn everyone of them children around...right back into Mexico...or back across the river at gun point. Not our problem to deal with. We are Americans. They are not US. They don't look like us. And we don't want them being "dumped on our communities" not that that is happening. Must be something your heard on Fox News.

    Oh and to hell with that 2008 law. It doesn't apply in this case.

    I fully understand you. I absolutely cannot change your view. However, I will just respectfully disagree and quit arguing facts.

    I'm just glad that the Border Patrol and the Department of Health and Human Services don't look at it your way...or interpret the law your way. This is an humanitarian crisis.

    But maybe the problem will get better now that Governor Perry did his photo op cruising up and down the Rio Grande in a gun boat. That should scare the hell out of those children and send them back to their home countries. You gotta be tough with these kids...send a message back home. That's the Republican way.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote: Okay Johnnycee. What "better mode of communication" are you talking about that would have prevented or alleviated this situation? It sounds like your solution is to immediately turn everyone of them children around...right back into Mexico...or back across the river at gun point. Not our problem to deal with. We are Americans. They are not US. They don't look like us. And we don't want them being "dumped on our communities" not that that is happening. Must be something your heard on Fox News.

    Oh and to hell with that 2008 law. It doesn't apply in this case.

    I fully understand you. I absolutely cannot change your view. However, I will just respectfully disagree and quit arguing facts.

    I'm just glad that the Border Patrol and the Department of Health and Human Services don't look at it your way...or interpret the law your way. This is an humanitarian crisis.

    But maybe the problem will get better now that Governor Perry did his photo op cruising up and down the Rio Grande in a gun boat. That should scare the hell out of those children and send them back to their home countries. You gotta be tough with these kids...send a message back home. That's the Republican way.
    What better mode? well how about for starters the influx of illegals was a known and predictable factor that this Administration chose to ignore, the Bill Clinton of 2008 law pertains to sex trafficators and children, not the case here, btw, it doesn't matter to me what they look like, they are still illegals, and yes send them back and have them apply the legal way, also I wish you would stop referring to Fox News as my source because it isn't, I watch the network news, and until recently they were reporting that the illegals were being dumped onto that community in question, the border patrol duties does not include babysitting these illegals, BTW, who now is watching the borders while they are watching these people what 20 or 30 miles from the border if not more, compassion aside , this is nothing more than a in your face amnesty program, plain and simple.