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Satanic Monument May Find a Home at OK Statehouse

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  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    Source

    If you don't want to read the whole thing here is a short summary.

    In 2012, Mike Ritze, an Oklahoma state legislator, purchased and donated a monument of the Ten Commandments to the State of Oklahoma which then displayed it in front of the Statehouse. Argument was that since it was paid for and donated by a private party then it wasn't a violation of the 1st Amendment. Other religions could also make donations that could be displayed and were invited to do so. The state would not be playing favorites. This argument held up in the courts.

    Enter the Satanic Temple. They have applied for a permit and raised $30,000 to commission a bronze statue be made honoring the Dark Lord. The statue is currently being cast in New York. They have a mold made, so if the statues are vandalized, they can easily and quickly churn another statue out. It is estimated that for each statue destroyed, almost 2 more statues can be made from the insurance.

    And this is what happens when the state opens the door for religious displays on government land. You open the door for one, you have to open the door for all. The legal community seems to be in compliance that the Satanic Temple has a really strong legal case for their monument.

    While I don't ascribe to either of these religions (or any other one for that matter). I think displaying both would send a good message. It would show how our legal system is unbiased and does not afford any sort of legal preference to any one religion. But I feel it is far more likely they all religious monuments will be removed before Oklahoma agrees to display a statue of Baphomet, even though he is a Biblical character. If Oklahoma does decide to remove all religious monuments, then the Satanic Temple will make it's way to Texas where we have the 10 Commandments on display and have for over 4 decades.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Zach F Wrote: Source

    If you don't want to read the whole thing here is a short summary.

    In 2012, Mike Ritze, an Oklahoma state legislator, purchased and donated a monument of the Ten Commandments to the State of Oklahoma which then displayed it in front of the Statehouse. Argument was that since it was paid for and donated by a private party then it wasn't a violation of the 1st Amendment. Other religions could also make donations that could be displayed and were invited to do so. The state would not be playing favorites. This argument held up in the courts.

    Enter the Satanic Temple. They have applied for a permit and raised $30,000 to commission a bronze statue be made honoring the Dark Lord. The statue is currently being cast in New York. They have a mold made, so if the statues are vandalized, they can easily and quickly churn another statue out. It is estimated that for each statue destroyed, almost 2 more statues can be made from the insurance.

    And this is what happens when the state opens the door for religious displays on government land. You open the door for one, you have to open the door for all. The legal community seems to be in compliance that the Satanic Temple has a really strong legal case for their monument.

    While I don't ascribe to either of these religions (or any other one for that matter). I think displaying both would send a good message. It would show how our legal system is unbiased and does not afford any sort of legal preference to any one religion. But I feel it is far more likely they all religious monuments will be removed before Oklahoma agrees to display a statue of Baphomet, even though he is a Biblical character. If Oklahoma does decide to remove all religious monuments, then the Satanic Temple will make it's way to Texas where we have the 10 Commandments on display and have for over 4 decades.
    you've described the dark Lord.....Who's the white lord???
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: you've described the dark Lord.....Who's the white lord???
    The 'white lord' is Yahweh, God. He's often called that by the neo/paleo-pagan group known as Wicca. As for the depiction of 'Satan' (The name is never mentioned in the Bible prior to its mistranslation by the scholars of King James) that is actually a manipulation of the Greek god Pan. Actually look into Satanism and what it stands for, not just what Hollywood tells you. I've studied it (don't believe in it) and have known several Satanists. Its actually got nothing to do with being evil, blood sacrifices, or anything else Hollywood tells you. Its based off Lucifer's fall and the reason behind it.

    I do however agree with Zach on this one. I think if they are going to display the 10 Commandments they should be required to display the statue of the 'Dark Lord'. I know its rare for Zach and I to agree on anything, but it does happen. I may be Christian, but I try to be fair about freedom of religion.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    RanmaMOJ Wrote:
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: you've described the dark Lord.....Who's the white lord???
    The 'white lord' is Yahweh, God. He's often called that by the neo/paleo-pagan group known as Wicca. As for the depiction of 'Satan' (The name is never mentioned in the Bible prior to its mistranslation by the scholars of King James) that is actually a manipulation of the Greek god Pan. Actually look into Satanism and what it stands for, not just what Hollywood tells you. I've studied it (don't believe in it) and have known several Satanists. Its actually got nothing to do with being evil, blood sacrifices, or anything else Hollywood tells you. Its based off Lucifer's fall and the reason behind it.

    I do however agree with Zach on this one. I think if they are going to display the 10 Commandments they should be required to display the statue of the 'Dark Lord'. I know its rare for Zach and I to agree on anything, but it does happen. I may be Christian, but I try to be fair about freedom of religion.
    Ranma,


    So...you agree that God is white? The Brown haired, white skinned savior with a nicely trimmed beard??? The white lord? that's a big statement
    also, a Pagan is a non-Christian...not some evil demonic being
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote:
    RanmaMOJ Wrote:
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: you've described the dark Lord.....Who's the white lord???
    The 'white lord' is Yahweh, God. He's often called that by the neo/paleo-pagan group known as Wicca. As for the depiction of 'Satan' (The name is never mentioned in the Bible prior to its mistranslation by the scholars of King James) that is actually a manipulation of the Greek god Pan. Actually look into Satanism and what it stands for, not just what Hollywood tells you. I've studied it (don't believe in it) and have known several Satanists. Its actually got nothing to do with being evil, blood sacrifices, or anything else Hollywood tells you. Its based off Lucifer's fall and the reason behind it.

    I do however agree with Zach on this one. I think if they are going to display the 10 Commandments they should be required to display the statue of the 'Dark Lord'. I know its rare for Zach and I to agree on anything, but it does happen. I may be Christian, but I try to be fair about freedom of religion.
    Ranma,


    So...you agree that God is white? The Brown haired, white skinned savior with a nicely trimmed beard??? The white lord? that's a big statement
    also, a Pagan is a non-Christian...not some evil demonic being
    I'm talking the actual definition of Pagan, meaning someone who is polytheistic, not the 'Christian' definition. White in this case meaning 'good'... Not white as in the color of his skin. Traditionally (even before Christianity) a good deity was regarded as being a white deity(not necessarily skin color, but that is part of how the association came about), while evil were considered black. Its kind of like with the military. US and Allied forces in a battle/war are Blue Forces, while enemy forces are Red. Its just the colors used to designate. Don't know what color skin God has, for all I know He changes it daily (or however often He chooses) because he wants to. Doesn't matter to me what He looks like.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote:
    RanmaMOJ Wrote:
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: you've described the dark Lord.....Who's the white lord???
    The 'white lord' is Yahweh, God. He's often called that by the neo/paleo-pagan group known as Wicca. As for the depiction of 'Satan' (The name is never mentioned in the Bible prior to its mistranslation by the scholars of King James) that is actually a manipulation of the Greek god Pan. Actually look into Satanism and what it stands for, not just what Hollywood tells you. I've studied it (don't believe in it) and have known several Satanists. Its actually got nothing to do with being evil, blood sacrifices, or anything else Hollywood tells you. Its based off Lucifer's fall and the reason behind it.

    I do however agree with Zach on this one. I think if they are going to display the 10 Commandments they should be required to display the statue of the 'Dark Lord'. I know its rare for Zach and I to agree on anything, but it does happen. I may be Christian, but I try to be fair about freedom of religion.
    Ranma,


    So...you agree that God is white? The Brown haired, white skinned savior with a nicely trimmed beard??? The white lord? that's a big statement
    also, a Pagan is a non-Christian...not some evil demonic being
    The White Lord is not a reference to skin color. It's a contrast to the opposite of dark. A more accurate name would be Lord of Light. Not every single reference to color is a metaphor for race.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Again a nutty subject; sure I will put a statute in my yard of Mohammed; would you appreciate that? I guess not. So what fun is it to antagonize every one by displaying disputable things in public? Typical for this country; somehow they love to irritate others and then are surprised the guns come out of the closet!! About the "white" thing; no it is a "green blob" with 30 arms and legs and can't speak, let alone English, and is deaf because it does not hear peoples or the Pope's prayers. Up there it is "dark" (the black hole) so "it" does not know what "white" is, let alone other colors like hot pink.!!
    Have fun; oops my statute got blown up !!
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    Dutch Wrote: Again a nutty subject; sure I will put a statute in my yard of Mohammed; would you appreciate that? I guess not. So what fun is it to antagonize every one by displaying disputable things in public? Typical for this country; somehow they love to irritate others and then are surprised the guns come out of the closet!! About the "white" thing; no it is a "green blob" with 30 arms and legs and can't speak, let alone English, and is deaf because it does not hear peoples or the Pope's prayers. Up there it is "dark" (the black hole) so "it" does not know what "white" is, let alone other colors like hot pink.!!
    Have fun; oops my statute got blown up !!
    Something being antagonizing, controversial or disputable is not a reason in itself to keep something from the public eye. As a matter of fact, a subject being controversial or disputable is a decent reason to raise awareness for it. How else will be become educated and make informed decisions.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Thank you for the correction Mr. Prez
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Zach F Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Again a nutty subject; sure I will put a statute in my yard of Mohammed; would you appreciate that? I guess not. So what fun is it to antagonize every one by displaying disputable things in public? Typical for this country; somehow they love to irritate others and then are surprised the guns come out of the closet!! About the "white" thing; no it is a "green blob" with 30 arms and legs and can't speak, let alone English, and is deaf because it does not hear peoples or the Pope's prayers. Up there it is "dark" (the black hole) so "it" does not know what "white" is, let alone other colors like hot pink.!!
    Have fun; oops my statute got blown up !!
    Something being antagonizing, controversial or disputable is not a reason in itself to keep something from the public eye. As a matter of fact, a subject being controversial or disputable is a decent reason to raise awareness for it. How else will be become educated and make informed decisions.
    Sorry a stupid answer!! Certainly in the Netherlands they will not display 10 or 30 commandments in public offices; to do that is provoking people; that seems to be the hobby here; if you can not understand that, than I give up on you.
  • Independent
    Mobile, AL
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    This could be a good thing for the country...while some people are busy passing laws that allow them to display/practice their religion, it could provide proof that the same law can (and should) be applied equally. We have the recent uproar over the NSA and wiretapping (thank you George Bush and the PA) and the current case before the Supreme Court (Hobby Lobby). While the PA is already law, the supremes have not yet ruled on allowing employers to decide what type of birth control their employees can purchase. Having a statue of satan on the grounds of Oklahoma's State House might demonstrate that laws can be used by everyone, once they are passed.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    I agree. To allow for one, you should allow for all. Personally, I'd rather have none because it's neither the place or time. I think we all could use a dose of tolerance. Accepting that there will always be different thoughts, beliefs, and opinions. It's nobodies job to disprove what opposes their views. Another use for the term: Live and let live.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Foolish humans...............attempting to explain the "Almighty". That's like Amphioxus conversing on an intelligent level with mankind and that is the limit of my ability to express an analogy. I would believe that I am far off in power trying to make a comparison between God and man.

    Foolish humans..........praising a satanic statue. I will be far from that view wanting no part of it.

    As for Dutch expressing his Netherlands public displays of 10 commandments and religious displays, there are more religious statues, monuments and paintings than any city in America has to offer. Copenhagen is blessed with a rich history of religion. Although, I may agree with Dutch's assessment that public (Government) offices may not display religion, but I wouldn't be surprised that you could walk into a government building and see a statue of Moses holding the 10 commandments (in Danish) like what is outside in public from the Our Lady Church of Copenhagen.

    http://www.denmark.net/denmark-guide/religion-denmark.html

    You can also go to Copenhagen's City Hall Square and view Radhuspladsen and see the abundant displays of religious figures. Copenhagen is rich in religious display, so you do not really need to be concerned about what may or may not be inside a government public office. However, be sure Netherlands have many religious displays in public offices. I got many, many pictures. The Netherlands are fighting religious displays just like America has been, but I don't know if the Netherland public would entertain the idea of a satanic statue. That would be just anti-historical for the people of the Netherlands.


  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Fortunately, for the Europeans at least,religion is finally being shown up for what it really is. The numbers of "true believers" in Europe has been rapidly declining, especially by the younger generation who are much more open minded on the subject. Superstition and fairy tales have no place in deciding how people should act and live. Why do the Europeans always seem to be so far ahead of the US in just about everything from medicine, religion, guns, education, social values and on and on? I believe it's because the US has become an isolated, closed society still resting on our past achievements and quickly moving backwards because of the grip the wealthy, the ignorant and the religious have on our society. Europe has moved ahead in big part because of the EU and the necessity for everyone to get along in order to survive and get ahead themselves - the total opposite of what has been happening in the US, particularly since the Right Wing, religious fundamentalists and Reagan's thugs hijacked the US economy and society for their own selfish purposes.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pr Wrote: Fortunately, for the Europeans at least,religion is finally being shown up for what it really is. The numbers of "true believers" in Europe has been rapidly declining, especially by the younger generation who are much more open minded on the subject. Superstition and fairy tales have no place in deciding how people should act and live. Why do the Europeans always seem to be so far ahead of the US in just about everything from medicine, religion, guns, education, social values and on and on? I believe it's because the US has become an isolated, closed society still resting on our past achievements and quickly moving backwards because of the grip the wealthy, the ignorant and the religious have on our society. Europe has moved ahead in big part because of the EU and the necessity for everyone to get along in order to survive and get ahead themselves - the total opposite of what has been happening in the US, particularly since the Right Wing, religious fundamentalists and Reagan's thugs hijacked the US economy and society for their own selfish purposes.
    Absolutely correct; however the "American decease" which is "money" has also become a "headache" there. What AMC is saying about "religeous" statues or nutty tablets,sorry I've never seen it. I know a lot of people there who buy up old churches and rebuilt these into apartments etc. Mostly only the elderly visit church or there are still some small sects who stick to themselves. Its not like here that people have "concrete" angels or "jesus" figures in their yard or T shirts with "jesus loves you" on.