Forum Thread

Immigration Reform

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  • Independent
    California
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    Hi I am new here. I consider myself open minded, in that I will listen to either side and am willing to change my opinion. I don't align myself with any political party.
    Living in California, immigration has been a hot topic for quite some time now. I would be interested to hear some of your thoughts on the topic. Right wingers want to deport everyone as criminals and build a mile high border fence with fields of land mines along it (ok, exaggeration). Those on the left are interested in the human element and want to help immigrants, and allow them to integrate into America. It is such a polarizing topic; is there really an adequate solution? I don't think we can remove the border, there needs to be some control, but it should be easier to come here legally, especially if one is willing to work and contribute to society. The other side of the coin is that it should be harder for lawbreakers to stay here, as well as those who are not willing to work within the system (working without paying taxes, for example, under-the-table employment). We have many illegal immigrants here now, and many of them have been here since they were children so they are fully American-feeling, for lack of a better term. Personally, I know some people in this situation. I could not vote to deport my friends, it seems insane... They have been here since they were young kids. Can a pathway to citizenship appease everyone, even those who argue that they have lived here illegally and feed off the system and not paid taxes? How could they possibly repay society in order to "earn" their citizenship? But if they can't, is it fair to forgive their trespasses, if citizens are not given the same forgiveness for not paying taxes, for example?
    I am not taking a side here, mostly just posing the question, is there a path to citizen that will appease both supporters and opponents, or at least the majority? I recognize there will always be extremists that are never happy with any compromise.
    Thanks.

  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Sir. Im from Los Angeles. My mother came here illegally and I'm half Mexican. The other day on TV I saw an interview with a lady demanding that congress act, that congress finally address this issue. Congress has addressed this issue years ago. She was asking that Congress address the issue in her favor. She said, "We have done nothing wrong except cross the border illegally"....And that's exactly why you're being deported.

    Do we forgive Bank robbers that get caught 20 years later? Of course not. Do we give amnesty to guys that commit tax fraud 20 years later? NO we don't.

    There are consequence to all acts. If you don't like the law then change the law,,,,but until then,,,,,you're being deported. It's that simple. The construction industry hasn't existed in LA for 25 years....shitty work because contractors didn't want to pay skilled labor. Wages down because illegals refuse to fight when they are here. Slave mentality.

    We don't need that here. You brought Mexico here with you.. I could understand anyone wanting a better life but you came here and refused to assimilate and destroyed all industries here with your inability to fight folr better conditions for yourself and your family.

    There are parts of LA that have yet to get on board with the rest of the world because of this slave mentality....NO THANKS
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    Funny enough, bank robbery has statute of limitations. If you rob a bank, and are never named as a suspect, then after 5 years, you can no longer be charged with that crime. So I guess it is a form of forgiveness.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    No sir,,,,, at the federal level...kidnapping, tax evasion, bank robbery, counterfeiting and murder have no statute of limitations
  • Independent
    California
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    I suppose that's true, a statute of limitations is a form of forgiveness. Although, I think it differs slightly in that, a bank robber may have made one stupid mistake in his youth, but then lived a normal life after that, living fully within the law. Meaning, they broke a law once, but are not continuing to break any laws since one cannot live in a state of perpetual bank robbery. Whereas an illegal immigrate would be continually breaking a law always as long as they were in the country. It's not the act of crossing the border that is necessarily the crime, but rather it is living here after crossing the border.
    L.A. Citizen, you make some excellent points regarding the impact on the construction industry, quality of work, slave mentality. I should note, since I may not have been clear, that I am a citizen. My great grandfather came here from Mexico, I don't know if he came legally, but I am basically white. So, I try to speak respectfully of the situation so as not to offend. I do have a couple of friends that are here illegally that came as children with their parents. You also touched on a crucial point - the issue of justice. We don't want anyone to be treated unjustly since America was built on freedom and justice for all. Are there injustices against taxpayer citizens? Against immigrants? I read this article that argues both are occurring: www.canyoupleasesparesomechange.com/?p=20 The ethics of immigration reform.


  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Crossing the border is a FELONY.....simply being here is a civil misdemeanor. That's the problem. The US Constitution is argued on civil liberties. But.... one must be a citizen to be protected by the Constitution.

    Everbody wants laws... but when not agreement with those laws we tend to categorize laws based on our own personal beliefs. The law doesn't work that way.... people think simply because they disagree with the law that it's okay to break (such as myself).

    I thought drugs should be legal years ago...so I sold Them....the law put me away for quite a while. Period. You break the law you go to prison. You don't like the law...you change it. Until then, you will be held accountable to it...What part of that do illegals not understand.???

    The law didn't care that I had children, nor should it. Now. I'm a firm believer that as long as you accept the consequences of your actions...THEN HAVE AT IT

    I knew what I was doing was illegal and I knew what the consequences that it carried...this is why I wear my past like a badge of honor. Not because of my time...but because of the accountability for my actions. I could have ratted and never spent a day in prison. ACCOUNTABILITY is my badge of honor .Prison sucked
  • Independent
    California
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    Wow, that's an intense story, but it's cool to see that your experience resulted in an improved person, one that understands accountability and respects the law. I think lack of accountability is a huge problem in America, from government to politics to the public education system. So, I do agree with you that illegal immigrants have broken the law, even if they were brought here as children. The law is the law and applies regardless. What do we do with the illegal immigrants that are already here? Mass deportation? You mentioned cracking down hard on employers who hire illegals, and that makes sense - the job supply will dry up for illegals, and the demand to come here will go down as a result. Removing incentive. If they have little to gain by coming here illegally, they will stop. Would there be any sort of labor vacuum if they were all deported, and could it be filled?
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: No sir,,,,, at the federal level...kidnapping, tax evasion, bank robbery, counterfeiting and murder have no statute of limitations
    Every single source I look up says that bank robbery, kidnapping (in most cases) and conterfeiting all have a statute of limitations of 5 years, even at the federal level (assuming no murders took place during those crimes). However, if you rob a bank an don't claim your sudden windfall on your taxes, you can get tagged for that.

    Crimes that don't have statute of limitations are: Murder, Fraud/embezzlement, War Crimes, Kidnapping (in some cases), treason, and not paying back your student loans. This is way off topic, and kind of a mundane thing to discuss, but send some sources my way if you can, now I'm really curious about it.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Yes. It's called "WORKFARE" not welfare. You pass legislation that guarantees all Americans a job. Eliminate welfare. So... if all Americans were guaranteed a job they would unionize if they didn't like the working standards at their employment. The fear of not having a job would be eliminated so employers would lose the upper hand of threatening workers.

    You give the current illegals in this country temporary citizenship until they pay all fines we hit them with. If they don't like fines then leave. It's that simple. That is if they have family. If not, you have to go and get in line. I would only allow families to stay.

    Look. All of us make choices that carry consequences. Good and Bad. I'm sorry that people around the world have been dealt a bad hand. It's a shame...but its not our problem. Such is life. We are not guaranteed anything on this earth. Why do so many people assume such???
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    I do apologize....there's something called an on going criminal conspiracy which really doesn't need a co-defendant because a co-defendant can be defined as known or unknown to the grand jury. the statute of limitations can't expire with on-going criminal activity

    I was given a three point enhancement at sentencing for having a "leadership role". I had no co-defendants so what exactly am I the leader of? It didn't matter
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Zach F Wrote:
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: No sir,,,,, at the federal level...kidnapping, tax evasion, bank robbery, counterfeiting and murder have no statute of limitations
    Every single source I look up says that bank robbery, kidnapping (in most cases) and conterfeiting all have a statute of limitations of 5 years, even at the federal level (assuming no murders took place during those crimes). However, if you rob a bank an don't claim your sudden windfall on your taxes, you can get tagged for that.

    Crimes that don't have statute of limitations are: Murder, Fraud/embezzlement, War Crimes, Kidnapping (in some cases), treason, and not paying back your student loans. This is way off topic, and kind of a mundane thing to discuss, but send some sources my way if you can, now I'm really curious about it.
    In the federal system we have statutes by Congress. And then we have interpretations by the DOJ in their implementation. Such as Double Jeopardy. The statute says that a person if acquitted can never be held accountable for the penalty of acquitted conduct. So google US v. Watts and tell me what you think. You can be held accountable for acquitted conduct. That's just one of many examples.

    Also, a person can be sentenced to behavior that's never been charged in an indictment. Apprendi v. New Jersey all the way up to US v. Booker


  • Green Party
    Indiana
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    americaboy Wrote: Hi I am new here. I consider myself open minded, in that I will listen to either side and am willing to change my opinion. I don't align myself with any political party.
    Living in California, immigration has been a hot topic for quite some time now. I would be interested to hear some of your thoughts on the topic. Right wingers want to deport everyone as criminals and build a mile high border fence with fields of land mines along it (ok, exaggeration). Those on the left are interested in the human element and want to help immigrants, and allow them to integrate into America. It is such a polarizing topic; is there really an adequate solution? I don't think we can remove the border, there needs to be some control, but it should be easier to come here legally, especially if one is willing to work and contribute to society. The other side of the coin is that it should be harder for lawbreakers to stay here, as well as those who are not willing to work within the system (working without paying taxes, for example, under-the-table employment). We have many illegal immigrants here now, and many of them have been here since they were children so they are fully American-feeling, for lack of a better term. Personally, I know some people in this situation. I could not vote to deport my friends, it seems insane... They have been here since they were young kids. Can a pathway to citizenship appease everyone, even those who argue that they have lived here illegally and feed off the system and not paid taxes? How could they possibly repay society in order to "earn" their citizenship? But if they can't, is it fair to forgive their trespasses, if citizens are not given the same forgiveness for not paying taxes, for example?
    I am not taking a side here, mostly just posing the question, is there a path to citizen that will appease both supporters and opponents, or at least the majority? I recognize there will always be extremists that are never happy with any compromise.
    Thanks.

    Well the constitution says no cuba vietnam china or japan may seek work here in the United States so there for they may not live here evenif you are issued a visa to visit not to be arranged to work or stay permenantly there are countries that are our Americans that are English an Scottish Russian Germany Denmark Poland that are coming to their country as well. As we are the United States and Canada. So it is disrespect for Mexico Cuba Equador along Vietnam China Japanese to argue to stay or work as if they are in your yard an you have ask them to kindly leave and go home. So we do have vortues and ways an are fond of them unless we are disrespected an lawsuits are not exceptable as we know the law is for them not to seek work. So our lower white would be more than happy to take all of our jobs as us Education do the rest of the Careers and jobs that we have