Forum Thread

Ted Cruz's father calls for "Heathen Zones"

Reply to ThreadDisplaying 15 Posts
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Post Removed by Moderators
    The decision was made to remove this post (but not delete it) from this thread by a moderator -- but we still allow members to see it if they wish. Please note that some members may have replied to this post later in this discussion thread before moderators decided to remove it. You can choose to see what was removed here: View Removed Post
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    The Cubans & Canadians were smart enough to get rid of the Crusers- why are we so dumb to keep them? Oh, I forgot, we're Americans, the chosen people (by God, of course).
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    When I try to understand why Ted Cruz is so ideologically driven, all I have to do is look at his father. They share the same genes. And although one's political views is a combination of genetic and environment, it seems the Senator Ted Cruz's "father environment" reinforced his genetic predispositions.

    What I have a harder time understanding is the mental state of those that consider Ted Cruz a hero.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    In Ted Cruz's defense, Ted Cruz is not his father. We are not our parents and we shouldn't be labeled as them. If Ted Cruz starts talking like this then its cause for alarm.

    My mother is Baptist. Which, as people on this site know, I find a crazy belief, just like all religion. She is also emotionally driven, has a completely conservative political standing, a bit homophobic, extremely sweet, caring, and nurturing. I'm am driven by logic, politically independent, LGBT friendly, have a callous and cynical disposition and not very nurturing at all.

    Even people with the same genes, who have had those predispositions reinforced for most of their lives can turn out different from the parents. While Ted Cruz's father might be a nut job. I would not hold his father's short comings against Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz has established his own track record of silly comments that we can hold him to.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Like many others, your mother is a product of her environment. If she was born in the Middle East she would feel the same way about Islam as she does Christiananity. At least, her tree was planted on a hill and the fruit rolled away!
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Zach F Wrote: In Ted Cruz's defense, Ted Cruz is not his father. We are not our parents and we shouldn't be labeled as them. If Ted Cruz starts talking like this then its cause for alarm.

    My mother is Baptist. Which, as people on this site know, I find a crazy belief, just like all religion. She is also emotionally driven, has a completely conservative political standing, a bit homophobic, extremely sweet, caring, and nurturing. I'm am driven by logic, politically independent, LGBT friendly, have a callous and cynical disposition and not very nurturing at all.

    Even people with the same genes, who have had those predispositions reinforced for most of their lives can turn out different from the parents. While Ted Cruz's father might be a nut job. I would not hold his father's short comings against Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz has established his own track record of silly comments that we can hold him to.
    My guess is "genes" do not program a "baby's" brain; the surroundings in which it grows up will do that; since I was an orphan I had to absorb whatever came my way and analyse it; In a family setting you get more programmed, as well later in life if you join a church or the armed forces. Nowadays kids get way too much influence via the media; it depends on what they are looking at i.e. Rambo, MTV culture, Ridicullousness programs or PBS etc.
    Also guns, killing movies etc. are a huge influence on their mentality later in life; so I wonder how much influence the gene's have today on them.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    pr Wrote: Like many others, your mother is a product of her environment. If she was born in the Middle East she would feel the same way about Islam as she does Christiananity. At least, her tree was planted on a hill and the fruit rolled away!
    Well that is kinda rude. Being different from my mother doesn't mean I rolled away from the tree. I'm still a product of her upbringing and to say she doesn't still influence my life would be grossly inaccurate.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Zach F Wrote:
    pr Wrote: Like many others, your mother is a product of her environment. If she was born in the Middle East she would feel the same way about Islam as she does Christiananity. At least, her tree was planted on a hill and the fruit rolled away!
    Well that is kinda rude. Being different from my mother doesn't mean I rolled away from the tree. I'm still a product of her upbringing and to say she doesn't still influence my life would be grossly inaccurate.
    Jesus, I didn't infer that at all, you're reading way too much into a simple statement! You're the one who told us you have nothing in common with your mother when it comes to politics and religion. I never inferred anything else about anything but politics and religion.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote: When I try to understand why Ted Cruz is so ideologically driven, all I have to do is look at his father. They share the same genes. And although one's political views is a combination of genetic and environment, it seems the Senator Ted Cruz's "father environment" reinforced his genetic predispositions.

    What I have a harder time understanding is the mental state of those that consider Ted Cruz a hero.
    Let me claify my statement. As one who has read numerous books and articles by psychologists and neuroscientists, I'll share what they are saying. My apologies for the length of this post.

    1. George Lakoff, The Political Mind: "Most of us think we know our own minds. This is because we engage in conscious thought, and it fills much of our waking life. But what most people are not aware of, and are sometimes shocked to discover, is that most of our thought -- an estimated 98 percent -- is not conscious. It is below the level of consciousness....Unconscious thought is reflexive -- automatic, uncontrolled. Conscious thought is reflective. Most thought is reflexive, not reflective."

    2. University of Maine, Children and Brain Development: What We Know About How Children Learn: "At birth, the human brain is in a remarkably unfinished state. Most of its 100 billion neurons are not yet connected in networks. Forming and reinforcing these connections are the key tasks of early brain development. Connections among neurons are formed as the growing child experiences the surrounding world and forms attachments to parents, family members and other caregivers.

    "In the first decade of life, a child’s brain forms trillions of connections or synapses. Axons connect to dendrites, and chemicals called neurotransmitters help send messages (called “impulses”) across the resulting synapses. Each individual neuron may be connected to as many as 15,000 other neurons, forming a network of neural pathways that is immensely complex. This elaborate network is sometimes referred to as the brain’s “wiring” or “circuitry.” As the neurons mature, more and more synapses are made. At birth, the number of synapses per neuron is 2,500, but by age two or three, it’s about 15,000 synapses per neuron. This is like going from 100 to 600 friends on Facebook, and each of those friends in turn, is connected to 600 more people! The neural network expands exponentially. If they are not used repeatedly, or often enough, they are eliminated. In this way, experience plays a crucial role in “wiring” a young child’s brain. Brain development does not stop after early childhood, but it is the foundation upon which the brain continues developing. Early childhood is the time to build either a strong and supportive, or fragile and unreliable foundation. These early years are very important in the development that continues in childhood, adolescence, and adulthood."

    3. Studies of Minnesota Twins

    Carolyn Funk et al, August 13, 2009: Genetic and Environmental Transmission of Value Orientations: A New Twin Study of Political Attitudes

    The most compelling and well documented set of studies that support the genetic link to one's predisposition to traits of conservatism or liberalism have been conducted on some 1,100 twins listed in the University of Minnesota twins registry. These twins have been the subject of multiple behavioral studies over the years, and as they have advanced in age psychologists and political scientists have gone back to them to see how their political views have evolved.

    You can read the abstract and download the 29 page paper at the above link, but I'll attempt to summarize. As the abstract states, the researchers tested "the degree to which genetic and environmental factors influence...social orientations and compare these findings with similar analyses on the Wilson-Patterson index of liberal-conservative ideological orientation, self-identified ideology, right-wing authoritarianism, and egalitarianism." In other words, previous studies have used various professionally recognized indices to rank and quantify one's political orientations, but these have not been without some disagreements about the validity of the methods. What this study has done is ask the twin respondents to answer sets of questions in a new social orientation index and but also for the other methodologies for comparison and validation. The correlations of the twins social values are tested against both a shared and unique environment...the shared environment being the common family environment until their early 20s when the twins go their own separate ways and then experience "unique environments." The paper can be difficult to read, and I'll apply journalist bias and go to the findings without all the discussion:

    The Society Works Best Index shows a substantial influence of both genetics and unique environment. "Additive genetic factors account for 44% of the variance in this index of social orientations while unique environmental factors account for 56% of the variance.

    The Wilson-Patterson Index of Liberal-Conservative Ideology also shows a substantial influence of both genetics and unique environmental factors. Additive genetic factors account for 66% of the variance in this index while unique environmental factors account for 34% of the variance.

    Applying the right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) scale, additive genetic factors account for 60% of the variance in the RWA while unique environmental factors account for 39% of the variance.

    When it comes to egalitarianism, additive genetic factors account for 41% of the variance while unique environmental factors account for 59% of the variance.

    Similarly, a little over half of the variance (52%) in self-identified ideology is accounted for by genetic factors with the remainder (48%) accounted for by unique environmental factors.

    None of the indices showed any kind of meaningful correlations with the shared environment of their childhood and teen years. All of them correlated with the unique environments after they "left the nest."

    The authors applied Cronbach's (alpha) coefficient to test for consistency of these methods, and all varied between 0.65 and 0.87, which mathematically would be classified as "good."

    The authors summarize their findings: "Like many political behavior scholars, behavioral geneticists at first assumed that social attitudes would be influenced entirely or mostly by shared environmental influences. Those assumptions were shown to be faulty as the body of evidence from the behavioral genetics tradition accumulated. To this point, only a handful of studies have tested for genetic and environmental influences of value orientations. Evidence to date suggests that a large number of value orientations are, at least, moderately heritable. Such a finding would be in keeping with genetic research across a wide range of psychological traits."

    4. John R. Hibbing et al, 2014, Predisposed -- Liberals, Conservatives, and the Biology of Political Differences

    The authors find that peole have diverse psychological, physiological and genetic traits that define their orientation to politics.They disagree, however, with bucketing people into either a conservative or liberal group. While statistically they may fall in one or the other, most people's views fall on a continuum somewhere between the extremes, and for the most part it's issue by issue, with most people having a mix of both liberal and conservative leanings on several issues...or maybe just indifference. Only a very few hot button issues seem to really define them, or to put it another way, arise their passions. Quoting the authors:

    "You were born with a unique genetic package. This package was immediately modified by prenatal and early prenatal forces, further modified by a wide range of environmental influences during development and beyond. These sources of influence combined into dispositional tendencies that affect your behavior and attitudinal responses to whatever situations the world presents to you. These tendencies are inertial; they structure your attitudes and behaviors but do not predetermine them."

    "These predispositions are physically grounded in the circuitry of the nervous system, so once instantiated they can be very difficult but far from impossible to change. Altering a predisposition is like turning a supertanker...but it can be done."

    5. Summing it all up. My few cherry picked extracts cannot do justice to the books, a couple of which I have read twice. Genetic factors can account for perhaps some 40 to 60 percent of one's political views, but one's environment and life's experiences can have a heavy influence on whether those genetically driven political views are moderated or reinforced. Early childhood nurturing (or the lack of) has a significant effect on the way the brain develops these predispositions.

    My contention is that Ted Cruz's political views and his intransigent positions mimic the traits of his father, from what I have observed in both in their speeches and actions. For example, he still defiantly states he would repeal every word of Obamacare despite the Republican shift away from that position.

    I don't know how much Ted's mother influenced his predispositions, but I can certainly believe that his authoritarian father had an influence. If you have read Robert Altemeyer's book, The Authoritarians, you will easily peg both of them as what Altemeyer calls, the authoritarian leaders..."people born with a greater tendency to try to intimidate and dominate others. If these attempts pay off, these “natural bullies” will be on their way. Others may have the genes but not the “muscle” or the smarts to carry it off."

    Ted Cruz is a natural bully whose disposition is reinforced by the life long dominating influence of his father.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Thanks, good job on researching thus. I agree totally!
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Excellent stuff Schmidt. Let me clarify my point. We are absolutely a product of our genes and environment. And Ted Cruz certainly has stated that he has a Pro-Christian/Anti-Atheist stance (which was almost certainly reinforced by his father). But here is where I get uncomfortable, just because Ted Cruz's father has said that he wants to put atheists in concentration camps, doesn't mean that Ted Cruz would agree with the same stance. So, I would prefer to give Ted Cruz the benefit of the doubt that he would be against such an extreme course of action unless there are signs to the contrary from Ted Cruz himself.

    People can be huge influences on your life without you agreeing with 100% of what they. It's good that we know we are aware of the environment public figures come from, but we can't just assume that they exactly like that environment.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Zach F Wrote: Excellent stuff Schmidt. Let me clarify my point. We are absolutely a product of our genes and environment. And Ted Cruz certainly has stated that he has a Pro-Christian/Anti-Atheist stance (which was almost certainly reinforced by his father). But here is where I get uncomfortable, just because Ted Cruz's father has said that he wants to put atheists in concentration camps, doesn't mean that Ted Cruz would agree with the same stance. So, I would prefer to give Ted Cruz the benefit of the doubt that he would be against such an extreme course of action unless there are signs to the contrary from Ted Cruz himself.

    People can be huge influences on your life without you agreeing with 100% of what they. It's good that we know we are aware of the environment public figures come from, but we can't just assume that they exactly like that environment.
    Yes I didn't mean to imply that Ted Cruz would be walking in step with everything his father said. That would be really stupid. But both have used heated rhetoric against Obama and for that matter our government. Ted's rhetoric is more guarded than the really inflammatory stuff of his father. But what they do have in common is their personal traits of making emphatic statements that seem out of touch with reality. Here are a few Ted quotes:

    "I think President Obama is the most radical president this nation's ever seen. And in particular, I think he is a true believer in government control of the economy and of our everyday lives. In my judgment, we are facing what I consider to be the epic battle of our generation, quite literally the battle over whether we remain a free market nation."

    "We are witnessing a great awakening. Millions of Texans, millions of Americans are rising up to reclaim our country, to defend liberty and to restore the Constitution."

    "Today, seeing the disaster, seeing the trainwreck that is Obamacare, in my view, it is the essence of pragmatism to acknowledge this thing isn't working. We need to start over, repeal every word of it. Start over."

    “I am absolutely convinced that we are going to repeal every single word of Obamacare.”

    “The challenges facing this country are unlike any we have ever seen. … This is an administration that seems bound and determined to violate every single one of our Bill of Rights.”

    “One day we will find ourselves answering questions from our children and our children’s children, ‘What was it like when America was free?’ ”

    Does Ted Cruz really believe everything he says or is he pandering to his right wing base? Hate sells. If Ted Cruz ever became president, he would be everyone's worst nightmare.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Ted Cruz has not let up on his crusade to distort, lie and demean on all things Obama....or not Obama.

    Dana Milbank, Washington Post, May 9, 2014: Ted Cruz, the reckless accuser

    "Sen. Ted Cruz, in a speech to fellow conservatives at the Federalist Society this week, provided detailed evidence of what the right calls the “lawlessness” of the Obama administration.

    "The Texas Republican, in his latest McCar­thyesque flourish, said he had a list of “76 instances of lawlessness and other abuses of power.”

    "To his credit, Cruz made his list public. But perhaps he shouldn’t have. An examination of the accusations reveals less about the lawlessness of the accused than about the recklessness of the accuser."


    You can read Milbank's column as he debunks point by point Cruz's list of 76. But Cruz doesn't care because none of his worshippers read the Washington Post or Dana Milbank.
  • North Carolina
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Newslo, the source for this article, is a parody website. Sorry, OP, you wouldn't be the first to be tricked -- they appear very real, and are frequently cited by people as fact.

    Ted Cruz's father, as far as I can tell, has said none of these things, though both he and his son have made some pretty strange, whackjob comments on a number of subjects.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    AdHoc Wrote: Newslo, the source for this article, is a parody website. Sorry, OP, you wouldn't be the first to be tricked -- they appear very real, and are frequently cited by people as fact.

    Ted Cruz's father, as far as I can tell, has said none of these things, though both he and his son have made some pretty strange, whackjob comments on a number of subjects.
    Adhoc --

    Thanks. I stand corrected. I should have checked out that website more carefully before using those quotes. The reason I fell for it is that the quotes were in character with other ridiculous statements that Rafael Cruz has said in the past. Some examples compliments of the Daily Beast:

    “We have our work cut out for us,” he said. “We need to send Barack Obama back to Chicago. I’d like to send him back to Kenya, back to Indonesia.” He went on to say, “We have to unmask this man. This is a man that seeks to destroy all concept of God. And I will tell you what, this is classical Marxist philosophy. Karl Marx very clearly said Marxism requires that we destroy God because government must become God.”

    Referring to the liberal media:

    “They just tell us what they want us to hear. They are rewriting history…because they have an agenda. And unfortunately the agenda is an evil agenda. It’s an agenda for destroying what this country is all about,”

    “Socialism requires that government becomes your god. That’s why they have to destroy the concept of God. They have to destroy all loyalties except loyalty to the government. That’s what’s behind homosexual marriage. It’s really more about the destruction of the traditional family than about exalting homosexuality, because you need to destroy, also, loyalty to the family.”

    There's more but I'll let it go for now...I overshot.