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Military Suicides are far too high

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  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    I first of all admit that I hate war. It's a bad thing almost always. I do however have respect for those who protect our country.
    I've recently heard on the news that Military suicides were way up. I just Googled it and it appears to be true. I believe ex-military
    should get much more help with physical and mental health.

    There's a veteran who kills themselves every 65 minutes. That's far too many. Most of those who do so are in their 50's. Not kids
    fresh off of the battlefield. I'm not sure what that says. It is a problem that needs more attention though.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States


    ====

    Retrying a link to add info. Hopefully this Wikipedia page will add some info. 1/2 way down the page on the link, there's military info. dated 2009.
    Wiki story seemed to have much info including rates in USA vs. Sweden, U.K., Switzerland, Netherlands, New Zealand and others. Interesting information on what's seeming to be a trend. What does it say as a society where people don't always chose to live as long as they can ? **
    More people die from Suicide in the USA than from Car accidents in 2013. Sad Fact. **
    ====

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Again this shows military indoctrination has the opposite effect and makes them even more confused; like you said wars are horrible, it affects plenty of families.
    Adds on TV who paint a rosy picture to lure young kids are criminal, because it does not show reality.
    Just to be sent to a country who does not like us and then being surprised that they shoot you or your comrades is not mentioned.
    But yeah hero's like Bush and Cheney enjoy their retirement with plenty of money in the bank and have no guilt complex; so things are great.
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    In the US military, young men are duped into joining the Army/Navy/Air Force for guts & glory. It is
    always presented as a patriotic issue, with lots of opportunity for advancement & training. So many
    young men join, without really knowing what they could get themselves into. Rates of being killed
    or crippled are probably never explained, as well as being re-deployed over & over again, until a
    soldier is either crippled, killed, or commits suicide. Suicide has reached epidemic proportions.

    Noticeably, the warmongers who start the wars seldom or never are sent to dangerous war zones.
    Bush "W" for instance, was only inside the USA, for pilot training, which he got out of, by flunking
    the drug test. There are places where he was registered as AWOL for a whole year in Nat'l Guard.

    Rush Limbo also remained out of service (for VietNam) by designation of "4-F", which may have
    been simply (for Fat). Rushbo flunked out of college for drugs & cheating, so had no deferment.
    But both of them, as might be expected, had very wealthy fathers who could pull strings to get
    the best of outcomes for their sons. So now, nearly 40 yrs after VietNam, Bushie & Rushbo are
    still healthy & alive, living in splendor, completely devoid of any memory of a bloody battlefield.

    The rest of us -- Not so Much. The wounded veterans suffer every day, with pain & amputation,
    and their whole lives & families torn apart. Their ability to make a living are seriously impaired,
    & the other civilians are forced to PAY billions of dollars for the COST of the WAR which went on
    for at least 10+ years. What did we gain? NOTHING. Only the rich who invested in the big WAR
    MACHINE made billion$ of bucks - on the dead bodies of our soldiers. NEVER FORGET that.

    Since people like Bush & Cheney made such huge fortunes off the various wars we have fought
    lately, it should be EXPECTED from them, to contribute HUGE AMTS of FUNDS to the veterans.
    If they refuse, then it only shows their total lack of character, their selfishness, & corruption.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    eternal flame Wrote: In the US military, young men are duped into joining the Army/Navy/Air Force for guts & glory. It is
    always presented as a patriotic issue, with lots of opportunity for advancement & training. So many
    young men join, without really knowing what they could get themselves into. Rates of being killed
    or crippled are probably never explained, as well as being re-deployed over & over again, until a
    soldier is either crippled, killed, or commits suicide. Suicide has reached epidemic proportions.

    Noticeably, the warmongers who start the wars seldom or never are sent to dangerous war zones.
    Bush "W" for instance, was only inside the USA, for pilot training, which he got out of, by flunking
    the drug test. There are places where he was registered as AWOL for a whole year in Nat'l Guard.

    Rush Limbo also remained out of service (for VietNam) by designation of "4-F", which may have
    been simply (for Fat). Rushbo flunked out of college for drugs & cheating, so had no deferment.
    But both of them, as might be expected, had very wealthy fathers who could pull strings to get
    the best of outcomes for their sons. So now, nearly 40 yrs after VietNam, Bushie & Rushbo are
    still healthy & alive, living in splendor, completely devoid of any memory of a bloody battlefield.

    The rest of us -- Not so Much. The wounded veterans suffer every day, with pain & amputation,
    and their whole lives & families torn apart. Their ability to make a living are seriously impaired,
    & the other civilians are forced to PAY billions of dollars for the COST of the WAR which went on
    for at least 10+ years. What did we gain? NOTHING. Only the rich who invested in the big WAR
    MACHINE made billion$ of bucks - on the dead bodies of our soldiers. NEVER FORGET that.

    Since people like Bush & Cheney made such huge fortunes off the various wars we have fought
    lately, it should be EXPECTED from them, to contribute HUGE AMTS of FUNDS to the veterans.
    If they refuse, then it only shows their total lack of character, their selfishness, & corruption.
    Yes, I totally agree; I only hope people learn from it; anyway we never learned anything from Vietnam.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    I agree 100%!
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    eternal flame Wrote: In the US military, young men are duped into joining the Army/Navy/Air Force for guts & glory. It is
    always presented as a patriotic issue, with lots of opportunity for advancement & training. So many
    young men join, without really knowing what they could get themselves into. Rates of being killed
    or crippled are probably never explained, as well as being re-deployed over & over again, until a
    soldier is either crippled, killed, or commits suicide. Suicide has reached epidemic proportions.
    Okay... Lets start from the top... No one is 'duped' into going into the military. When you get to MEPS (I've been there, have you?) you are told and informed in the contract of the risk and dangers involved in the military. Hardly being 'duped'... Suicide is LESS common in the military (even among Veterans) than at a college campus... That also goes for rape, violent crimes, and many other crimes... As for the training... There is a very good reason practically EVERY college counts military training in the field of study as credits towards a degree... Often times it's more in depth than the classroom teaches and with more hands on work.

    eternal flame Wrote:
    Noticeably, the warmongers who start the wars seldom or never are sent to dangerous war zones.
    Bush "W" for instance, was only inside the USA, for pilot training, which he got out of, by flunking
    the drug test. There are places where he was registered as AWOL for a whole year in Nat'l Guard.
    And yet we had a draft dodger as a President, and that can be proven. EF, you routinely spout conspiracy theories here. You claim he went AWOL (which was disproven many times over, just like the claims that Obama wasn't born in the US were disproven) PROVIDE PROOF.
    eternal flame Wrote:
    Rush Limbo also remained out of service (for VietNam) by designation of "4-F", which may have
    been simply (for Fat). Rushbo flunked out of college for drugs & cheating, so had no deferment.
    But both of them, as might be expected, had very wealthy fathers who could pull strings to get
    the best of outcomes for their sons. So now, nearly 40 yrs after VietNam, Bushie & Rushbo are
    still healthy & alive, living in splendor, completely devoid of any memory of a bloody battlefield.
    Uh... Sources for the Drugs and cheating... From what I found he flunked out because he had no interest in anything but radio... As for 4-F, do just a hint of research... Hell, watch a war movie from the time. I think Full Metal Jacket even covers what 4-F means... ITS FLAT FEET, which even now you have to get a waiver for to get into the military because of the side effects of too much running and walking in combat boots on someone with flat feet...
    eternal flame Wrote:
    The rest of us -- Not so Much. The wounded veterans suffer every day, with pain & amputation,
    and their whole lives & families torn apart. Their ability to make a living are seriously impaired,
    & the other civilians are forced to PAY billions of dollars for the COST of the WAR which went on
    for at least 10+ years. What did we gain? NOTHING. Only the rich who invested in the big WAR
    MACHINE made billion$ of bucks - on the dead bodies of our soldiers. NEVER FORGET that.
    Wait... We got nothing?!? What happened to "Bush went to war with Iraq for oil" and all the other propaganda that was shouted while Bush was in office... You want to talk about paying out big bucks for doing nothing? Try looking at Congress, who get a pension of over $15,000 tax free, social security free, AFTER ONE TERM. That's right, 2 years in office and they get 15K a MONTH. I'll never forget that vote... It came on the heels of them turning down a proposed 8% pay increase for the military instead of the normal annual 5% increase due to COLA (Cost Of Living Allowance)...
    eternal flame Wrote:
    Since people like Bush & Cheney made such huge fortunes off the various wars we have fought
    lately, it should be EXPECTED from them, to contribute HUGE AMTS of FUNDS to the veterans.
    If they refuse, then it only shows their total lack of character, their selfishness, & corruption.
    Do some looking... Halliburton (you know, Chaney's 'evil' company) donates to Wounded Warrior project and many other veterans charities... So does Bush... What does Clinton donate to, other than his wife?
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Sorry, you lose all credibility by your first statement alone

    "Okay... Lets start from the top... No one is 'duped' into going into the military"

    This shows you have no understanding or comprehension of how the military obtains cannon fodder.

    The rest of your comments are just as meaningless and not even worth consideration of an answer.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Ranmo, I guess you live on another planet; I guess you have no clue about the human race; why are we placed on this globe? To kill each other? Being bored?, then shoot some other people who you never met and never did you harm; great hobby indeed.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Ranmo,
    I've rarely thought negatively about your posts until this last one. It was ignorant. Pres. Clinton does much meaningful charitable work. Your other comments don't even deserve a reply. The topic was Military suicides. They are at a high rate. Do you have any theories there ?
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    There are many and varied reasons for suicides in the military, probably as many as in the civilian world, the military however is exacerbated by the threat of war, long deployments away from family and of course the Jodi threat, for those not in the military it means while your away the cat at home may stray, and then there is of course the steely measure of a soldier to keep in all inside and deal with it, to not be able to deal with it sometimes is considered as a sign of weakness among his or hers peers. it is indeed a sad situation which demands more intense scrunity and study.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    JC,
    Yeah the number of factors are probably excessive. What I found unusual was that the average suicide is by a man in his 50's. I would have thought it would have been much younger people. Could still be PTSD. I don't know. I'm hoping someone (with more computer skills than me) might look up on Google and post a link or two with more explanatory information. The links I found didn't copy properly so they were not useful. I believe it's a serious and important topic.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I am not surprised about the older males leading the pack, given the number of younger soldiers being asked to not re-enlist per the cutbacks and the number of National Guard members being returned to their civilian jobs so they are not counted as a military suicide if it occurs after his deployment ends, so although the numbers are high, I think a more careful and in-depth study might reveal a much larger number, which might demand a Congressional study.
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    pr Wrote: Sorry, you lose all credibility by your first statement alone

    "Okay... Lets start from the top... No one is 'duped' into going into the military"

    This shows you have no understanding or comprehension of how the military obtains cannon fodder.

    The rest of your comments are just as meaningless and not even worth consideration of an answer.
    Considering I was in the US Army PGR, I think I understand VERY WELL how they recruit. Do you? I know what the contract that every service man and woman signs says. Do you? I know what they tell you at MEPS. Do you? I know what is taught in Basic Training. Do you?

    Tony, I realize the subject of the thread, but EF, Dutch, and PGR's initial posts weren't about the suicides either. They were using this thread as yet another excuse to bash the US military, and as a Veteran I felt the need to say something.

    As for the Clinton comment... Okay, so he donates to charities (He even runs a charitable organization...) but I don't see any listing for him donating to any Vets groups or organizations.

    As for why there are suicides in the military... Probably the same reasons for in the civilian world. PTSD does play a role, but the VA and Military has been working very hard to overcome the stigma usually associated with a PTSD diagnosis and has been working on helping those who suffer from it. I would also note that many civilians suffer from PTSD (from different source events obviously) and go undiagnosed more often than military. The military actually has programs in place and training for service men and women to recognize the signs of PTSD in themselves and others. Fact is the percentage of suicides among Soldiers and Vets is lower (though not by much) than among civilians. This is because the military members view each other (for the most part) as a kind second family.
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    The subject of suicides among our military is so sad. The best solution is to QUIT having WARS, And just about the time we think we have evolved to the point we can learn to negotiate, THIS crazy mess with the Ukraine & Russia & Crimea comes along. And NOW we are probably on high alert because of a nuclear test in North Korea, and revolts in Egypt & Syria -- & a Putin who is going back to the 1960's, with his nostalgia for a united Russia, all under one flag, as in the "good old days." But NOW we don't even have the old "bomb shelters" we had in the 1960's.

    There seems to be no solution to warfare. The survival instinct often translates to violence, kill or be killed, & kill to gain power. But in the ancient reaches of time, only a few people or villages would be affected. NOW it could be GENOCIDE if we unleash atomic bombs, & if several were to be deployed at once, it could wipe out much of human civilization, --- or even all mankind.

    WE ARE the often under-estimated legacy of John F. Kennedy, who faced Soviet missiles (in Cuba) & worked out a way that neither side had to resort to using them. There was a day in the early 1960's when Castro had several nukes (armed & ready for launch) which were given to him from Russia (under Khruschev). All were aimed at the USA. Soviet ships were arriving into Cuban harbors, carrying more atomic warheads & JFK had to decide what to do. All of our military brass wanted to bomb Cuba or attack the Soviet ships. But JFK (& his brother, atty general Bobby Kennedy) decided to blockade the harbor & tell them to turn back, & we would not attack. After a tense interval, where time stood still, as the fate of ALL OF US, stood in the balance --- the Soviets hesitated, thought about it, & gradually turned their ships around & left.

    While we cheered the apparent "victory" -- & JFK's policy of blockade worked, to save us all from nuclear devastation, --- we all owe a debt of gratitude to his Christian upbringing -- for although he was a War Hero in WWII (his PT-109 boat was sunk by the Japanese & he was severely injured) --- & he lost a brother & sister in that War, -- he knew that PEACE is the way to conduct relationships among men. That the best leaders would seek the intellectual solution, not the most savage & violent one. We also should give gratitude to Khruschev, who although he put up a blustery act of being hateful & full of aggression, but in their private talks, he & JFK talked about how the future of mankind rests in their hands, & that includes the survival of their own children & grandchildren, not being blown up in a nuclear holocaust.

    At one of their peace talks, Mrs Khruschev & Jackie were talking & exchanging gifts. Mrs Kennedy gave Mrs Khruschev a crystal vase, and Mrs Khruschev gave Jackie a lovely cross necklace. On one side it was enameled white & red, & the other side engraved Russian words in solid gold.
    She said it had been in her family for generations. (Khruschev's way of showing that even the Soviets believed in Jesus & his words of Peace).
  • Democrat
    Georgia
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    Eternal flame I would have to say your last reponse was very interesting. Your right about suicide being sad. But it's not only military suicide that's sad any suicide is sad. Why it's high in the military is a combination of things, but less wars would be a start when it comes to military suicide. I believe when people forget their worth and stop believing in God it contributes to them feeling unimportant. Mental and pschological reasons also play a part also, but when you give up on life it starts in your head that convince your heart to take your life.