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Tower 7

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  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    I believe in objective reasoning....but what the hell brought down tower 7 ????
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    Debating the conspiracy theories would be a violation of the rules (much as I would love to debate this particularly ludicrous conspiracy theory), so I'll answer this way. According to the official explanation, debris from the Twin Towers fell onto tower 7 and caused fires in the building. Since the debris would have fallen during the collapse of the nearby towers, and both towers collapsed more than 50 minutes after being hit, the building had been evacuated. The fire department had 2 options that day in regard to tower 7... Divert firefighters to try to save an evacuated building, or use those firefighters to help save the lives of the people who were injured by the attacks.

  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    It fell just as the other two towers did...what are the odds??? a building implodes on itself without assistance from a demolition crew
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    I was in prison during 911.We were kept on lockdown for a week and notified by letters placed under our cell door. Every Muslim in the bureau of prisons was sent to the SHU for their own protection. This lasted until the Wardens of all prisons had meetings with inmates ......
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: It fell just as the other two towers did...what are the odds??? a building implodes on itself without assistance from a demolition crew
    If you look at most buildings that burn down (over a certain height) you'll see the same thing in a majority of the cases. They collapse in on themselves.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: I believe in objective reasoning....but what the hell brought down tower 7 ????
    All of the footage I can find supports the idea that damage from the main towers plus the following fires brought it down.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    There are plenty of REPUTABLE sites that debunk every 9-11 truther conspiracy theory.

    Just like there are plenty of other sites that that support any and all of the 9-11 conspiracy theories.

    If anyone REALLY wants to know how and why Tower 7 came down there are plenty facts and evidence explaining it.

    There are plenty of people who make lots of money by preaching 9-11 conspiracy. Remember the anniversery of the JFK assassination a few months ago? There are still people there selling books and CD's about the various conspiracy theories surrounding that event. That means that people are STILL making money off JFK so 50-100 years from now the 9-11 conspiracy truthers will still be going strong.

    It depends on what you want to believe.
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    jamesn Wrote: There are plenty of REPUTABLE sites that debunk every 9-11 truther conspiracy theory.

    Just like there are plenty of other sites that that support any and all of the 9-11 conspiracy theories.

    If anyone REALLY wants to know how and why Tower 7 came down there are plenty facts and evidence explaining it.

    There are plenty of people who make lots of money by preaching 9-11 conspiracy. Remember the anniversery of the JFK assassination a few months ago? There are still people there selling books and CD's about the various conspiracy theories surrounding that event. That means that people are STILL making money off JFK so 50-100 years from now the 9-11 conspiracy truthers will still be going strong.

    It depends on what you want to believe.
    I do find it ironic though that 911truth.org, who is all about 'the truth of what really happened on 9/11' doesn't have a forum on their website...
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    Hey, did anyone ever hear about this? - About the WTC 9/11 disaster (NY, 2001). - Did you know that besides George Bush SR, & his son George Bush ("W"), there were a few other brothers? I don't know ALL of them, but there was a Neil Bush, a Jeb Bush, & a Marvin Bush. Well, the story goes that Marvin Bush was involved in the "security" of one of the buildings near the WTC (Twin Towers). And as such, he had shut down the bldg for a couple of days to allow "workmen" in there. And during this time, some rumors stated that they could have planted explosives in the bldg, to make a demolition implosion. Has anybody heard any of this? And where is Marvin now? (The invisible brother).

    Somebody mentioned (on this thread) that the 50th Anniversary of the JFK assassination was "spreading rumors" again, & dragging up some of the old conspiracies. BUT some of history has to be "corrected" because the original version was incomplete, or mistaken, or unknown. We NOW know a whole lot more about the Kennedy assassination than ever was known in 1963. [History NEEDS revision from time to time. For instance Columbus thought he was sailing to India to get spices & tea. And by a strange twist of fate, or poor navigation, they ended up near Cuba, & probably did not know where they really were. They met the natives here, & called them INDIANS, since they thought they were in India. At some time, they figured out the truth & corrected the destination to America. So history was wrong at first - & later had to be corrected].

    Fifty years ago (1963) people believed any rumor about Lee Harvey Oswald. But they didn't find out until a long time later that Oswald was on a top secret U-2 spy plane base, where he would have needed a military "top secret" clearance. Then he was given a very unusual discharge, & then went to Russia, where he had miraculously learned to speak "perfect" Russian. Then he had married a KGB official's relative, & was allowed to bring her back to the USA, with no problem, although he was supposed to have "defected." Among his friends who visited him & Marina (his wife) was a most unusual man, George DeMohrenschildt, who was involved in both the CIA and OIL. (Coincidentally, these are the very same pursuits of "poppy" George H.W. Bush). (prez #41) -- And on the day Geo DeMohr was due to testify to Congress about the JFK murder, he was found shot dead, -- & in his wallet was a business card that said "George H.W. "Poppy" Bush". Also, there is a photo of Daddy Bush standing in front of the Texas School Book Depository Bldg, just minutes after the shots were fired from the 6th floor of that bldg. (On Nov 22, 1963).

    In the Dallas newspaper that day, a headline appeared that said "JFK wanted for Treason" -- & it was placed there by the John Birch Society. (They are a radical right-wing group, offshoot of the GOP). A young college girl was watching the motorcade go by, & saw a pamphlet on the ground that said similar words, with a 2-sided Mug Shot of JFK, & accusing him of treasonous activity. She called to Chicago to tell her father about it, & he said, "Don't talk to anybody about this, and you may need to get a Lawyer." She said "Why"? And he said that JFK was dead, & the govt was probably going to try to claim the Birch Society did it. (Her father was on the JBS National Council). She asked him, "Well, DID you?" He never answered.

    Back in 1963, almost nobody knew about the John Birch Society, & it had just begun in 1958. It was a secret organization & was intended to fight communism. But since Welch did not believe in Democracy, it quickly switched emphasis on trying to destroy the Democratic Party. They started the vast propaganda network that is now the Fox Noise, & Rushbo Radio arena. They dominate the airwaves, brainwash people 24/7, and their agenda is to takeover the Govt of the USA (destroy democracy) & make this a fascist oligarchy. Rule of the Wealthy 1%.
    So the TRUTH is FAR FROM what anybody ever thought --- back in 1963.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    RanmaMOJ well, 911truth.org may not have a forum on their website but I did notice they have a place to click if you wish to donate. Surprising?

    MONEY. That's what this website is really about.

    It's not surprising to me that this conspiracy site has a button at the top of the home page marked DONATE. That's a common feature.

    They will accept PayPal, or credit cards. There's even an address where you can send a check. How very thoughtful of them. And how very transparent of them, and how very predictable.

    I wonder how much money people send in? What's the old saying..."A fool and his money are soon parted."

    I did some research into these 9-11 truther sites a while back and of the tons of stuff I read, the worst thing I ever read on any of them was the suggestion that two of the airplanes were "not real". If the family members had taken their loved ones to the airport that morning and watched them check in then go to their gate and see the airplane taxi out and take off......and then to hear someone say that the airplane and the people aboard were "not real"......how could someone even suggest such a thing? How could anything be more hurtful and insulting and degrading than that to the family members?

    But that's only one of the crazy theories out there, a person could spend days just reading all the madness. And they will say anything to get your money. A person could donate a lot of money to a lot of different sites. A fool and his money...

    MONEY, that's what 911truth is mostly about.
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    jamesn Wrote: RanmaMOJ well, 911truth.org may not have a forum on their website but I did notice they have a place to click if you wish to donate. Surprising?

    MONEY. That's what this website is really about.

    It's not surprising to me that this conspiracy site has a button at the top of the home page marked DONATE. That's a common feature.

    They will accept PayPal, or credit cards. There's even an address where you can send a check. How very thoughtful of them. And how very transparent of them, and how very predictable.

    I wonder how much money people send in? What's the old saying..."A fool and his money are soon parted."

    I did some research into these 9-11 truther sites a while back and of the tons of stuff I read, the worst thing I ever read on any of them was the suggestion that two of the airplanes were "not real". If the family members had taken their loved ones to the airport that morning and watched them check in then go to their gate and see the airplane taxi out and take off......and then to hear someone say that the airplane and the people aboard were "not real"......how could someone even suggest such a thing? How could anything be more hurtful and insulting and degrading than that to the family members?

    But that's only one of the crazy theories out there, a person could spend days just reading all the madness. And they will say anything to get your money. A person could donate a lot of money to a lot of different sites. A fool and his money...

    MONEY, that's what 911truth is mostly about.
    Seemed real enough to me when I was reading classified documents about the twin towers, pentagon, and the crash of flight 93... What I can tell you from those documents is that we did know something was coming and we had clues it might involve planes, but there was also indications pointing to building being bombed... We also didn't know when it was coming, and you can only remain on high alert for so long... A lot of the 911 conspiracy theorists (that don't claim it was done by our government) claim we knew exactly what was coming and when it was coming and that the government let it happened. I can tell you, having had access to TS info at the time, and I did look it up, that all we knew is something was coming and it could involve planes, bombs, or trucks, and that it was going to happen somewhere within the United States... Not a lot to go on...
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    Hi Jamesn: You said it was impossible to believe that anyone could watch their relatives get onto a plane, & then believe the plane could disappear. That it just could not happen that a plane could disappear like that one (9/11) -- & NO Hoaxes have ever been done in a bizarre manner like that.

    During the Kennedy Admin (1960-1963) we had a Joint Chiefs of Staff that included some very "odd" men, such as General Lemnitzer. He was always coming up with new scenario's to make an excuse for JFK to bomb (preferably with nukes) the island of Cuba. BACKGROUND: A dictator named Battista used to be the leader of Cuba, & our Mafia had gambling casino's there & Americans used to travel there for holidays. BUT for some odd reason, our CIA (under Eisenhower) decided we had to get rid of Battista, so we sent troops in there & installed Fidel Castro, instead. Shortly afterward, Fidel Castro announced that HE was a Communist, so it did not look too good for CIA to have wasted US taxpayer's money putting Castro into Cuba in the 1st place.

    So now the Joint Chiefs of Staff (under JFK) kept coming up with weird ideas how to rid us of the Castro problem. General Lemnitzer wanted to nuke Cuba, so bad, because why have "nuclear missiles" if you can't enjoy using them? JFK, of course, would not entertain such a crazy idea, but that did not deter Lemnitzer from his atomic obsession. He kept on coming up with one weird scenario after another, -- (1) like we could have a plane full of US college students flying near Cuba, & have another plane set up to "look like" a Cuban plane - go & bomb the US plane, & that would provide enough justification for the US to bomb (& nuke) Cuba. (2) We could attack our own base at Guantanamo, with our troops dressed up like Cubans, & then blame the attack on Cuba, & use that excuse to bomb Cuba. (3) We could have a plane set up to look like a tourist plane, flying near Cuba, & another plane with Cuban insignia would attack it, & that would justify our bombing Cuba. (4) & this one was a real WINNER: The General wanted to actually blow up the US space capsule, with astronaut John Glenn (a Democrat) aboard -- & that would be enough to justify our bombing Cuba. // By now, JFK was about ready to explode (himself) -- & who could blame him? (ha) I think JFK might have sent the General overseas for awhile, for a little "rest."

    We may never have known about these episodes, since all people involved were supposed to "destroy" all copies of the memorandum, but then we had a great Secretary of Defense, Robt McNamara, who kept his copy hidden away, & it was found many years later. (Probably when he died, in 2009).

    Also, it is amazing that our CIA installed Castro (a communist) into Cuba in 1960 (approx) & we have spent the last 54 years trying to GET RID OF HIM, with all kinds of scenario's (including a whore who gave Castro an exploding cigar). All this weird "dirty tricks" stuff has led to people saying that the C.I.A. stands for "criminally insane activities." (Its always good to maintain a little bit of Humor : )
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    eternal flame Wrote: Hi Jamesn: You said it was impossible to believe that anyone could watch their relatives get onto a plane, & then believe the plane could disappear. That it just could not happen that a plane could disappear like that one (9/11) -- & NO Hoaxes have ever been done in a bizarre manner like that.

    During the Kennedy Admin (1960-1963) we had a Joint Chiefs of Staff that included some very "odd" men, such as General Lemnitzer. He was always coming up with new scenario's to make an excuse for JFK to bomb (preferably with nukes) the island of Cuba. BACKGROUND: A dictator named Battista used to be the leader of Cuba, & our Mafia had gambling casino's there & Americans used to travel there for holidays. BUT for some odd reason, our CIA (under Eisenhower) decided we had to get rid of Battista, so we sent troops in there & installed Fidel Castro, instead. Shortly afterward, Fidel Castro announced that HE was a Communist, so it did not look too good for CIA to have wasted US taxpayer's money putting Castro into Cuba in the 1st place.

    So now the Joint Chiefs of Staff (under JFK) kept coming up with weird ideas how to rid us of the Castro problem. General Lemnitzer wanted to nuke Cuba, so bad, because why have "nuclear missiles" if you can't enjoy using them? JFK, of course, would not entertain such a crazy idea, but that did not deter Lemnitzer from his atomic obsession. He kept on coming up with one weird scenario after another, -- (1) like we could have a plane full of US college students flying near Cuba, & have another plane set up to "look like" a Cuban plane - go & bomb the US plane, & that would provide enough justification for the US to bomb (& nuke) Cuba. (2) We could attack our own base at Guantanamo, with our troops dressed up like Cubans, & then blame the attack on Cuba, & use that excuse to bomb Cuba. (3) We could have a plane set up to look like a tourist plane, flying near Cuba, & another plane with Cuban insignia would attack it, & that would justify our bombing Cuba. (4) & this one was a real WINNER: The General wanted to actually blow up the US space capsule, with astronaut John Glenn (a Democrat) aboard -- & that would be enough to justify our bombing Cuba. // By now, JFK was about ready to explode (himself) -- & who could blame him? (ha) I think JFK might have sent the General overseas for awhile, for a little "rest."

    We may never have known about these episodes, since all people involved were supposed to "destroy" all copies of the memorandum, but then we had a great Secretary of Defense, Robt McNamara, who kept his copy hidden away, & it was found many years later. (Probably when he died, in 2009).

    Also, it is amazing that our CIA installed Castro (a communist) into Cuba in 1960 (approx) & we have spent the last 54 years trying to GET RID OF HIM, with all kinds of scenario's (including a whore who gave Castro an exploding cigar). All this weird "dirty tricks" stuff has led to people saying that the C.I.A. stands for "criminally insane activities." (Its always good to maintain a little bit of Humor : )
    Eternal,

    as always, a well thought out response. And you write so well....teaching any classes?????? I have a hard time writing a "things to do list". I wish I had paid more attention in English Composition.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Hi eternal flame: You didn't read my post correctly. I did NOT say ..."it was impossible to believe that anyone could watch their relatives get onto a plane, & then believe the plane could disappear"... We all know that planes can, and sometimes do disappear.

    If you will read it again, I said something completely different.

    While talking about the 9-11 truther web sites, I said ..."the worst thing I ever read on any of them was the suggestion that two of the airplanes were "not real". If the family members had taken their loved ones to the airport that morning and watched them check in then go to their gate and see the airplane taxi out and take off......and then to hear someone say that the airplane and the people aboard were "not real".....how could someone even suggest such a thing?"......

    It is one thing to say it was impossible to see your relatives get onto a plane and and then believe the plane could disappear.

    It is a completely different thing to see your relatives get onto a plane watch it taxi out and take off and then have someone say the airplane was "not real". As if the airplane and the people did not exist. Not real? How is that possible?

    I cannot think of a more insulting, degrading, and hurtful thing for those family members to hear. And that is exactly what someone on one or some of the 9-11 truther web sites said.

    I can't imagine what kind of person would say that. Unless it is someone who is trying to make money off wild and crazy conspiracy theories, who will say ANYTHING, no matter how disgusting and false...just to make a few bucks.

    "disappear" is not the same as "not real".
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    Hello again, -- Sometimes I (mistakenly) EDIT the phrase or sentence I am commenting on. I did notice that my phrase was not exactly what you had said, -- but close enough for Poker (?) I am not standing up for any or all of the 9/11 truther websites, & I don't think I have even read very much of that literature, except a book by ? Thierry, from France, which I thought was very well presented, with lots of "food for thought". At the time, you could not even buy that book, -- it may have been "banned" by the Govt, (?) but at least it was very hard to find. My librarian was looking, & it took her three
    (3) months to find it. She may have had it shipped from France. But I was very glad to (finally) read it.

    I know it is hard to believe our wonderful infallible govt would ever do anything unscrupulous or deceptive, or even illegal, -- but it actually does happen sometimes./ Sometimes under the guise of self-defense, -- or FBI or CIA operations, -- or secret wartime espionage. One never knows...

    But if you read the article I wrote today, about the CIA wanting to "blow up the US space capsule, with astronaut John Glenn aboard, so they would have an excuse to go NUKE Cuba." There were definitely EVIL minds afoot in those days, high up in our Govt. In that case it was General Lemnitzer, in our Joint Chiefs of Staff (under JFK). Of course, JFK thought that the General had "lost his mind" & would not follow any of those horrible scenarios, but we have the proofs that it happened due to Defense Sec'y Robt McNamara's personal papers. (None of those suggestions were actually undertaken).

    So when somebody tells me that no planes could disappear, or anything like that, I just remember Steven Spielberg, or any great movie producers, of the recent past, & see how they can "reproduce" or FAKE anything. They can fake the sinking of the Titanic, or the first flight of the Wright Brothers, or
    show you the city of Paris, being filmed in Los Angeles, California. You can see an old man being portrayed by a very young man, with the very best of Hollywood makeup. You can see Pigs Fly, or mechanically functional Robots walking on the Moon. It is MAGIC.

    Now add in CIA technology: (spy satellites) or radio/2-way speaker-phones in a Wrist-Watch. Ability to steal a person's ID thru the internet. Putting in a RFID chip under your skin. Robotic mannequins with camera-eyes to watch for shoplifters. Makeup so real, your Mother won't recognize you.

    Believe me, ANYTHING can be faked. In some cases, even I could do it. (If I had the budget). You want a plane with relatives at the airport, watching them get on the plane. Watching it take off. Then reports come in that the plane crashed, killing all aboard, & there is a big hole in the ground where it crashed. One hundred killed. --- Hmmm That should be easy to arrange. You pay a hundred people to come to the airport & give them an alias name. They board the front of the plane, & after relatives leave, they exit out the back of plane. The empty airplane takes off at the runway, & flies off into history. I guess 100 "alias" guys would have to be paid, & possibly 50 or so "relatives" would have to be paid. The pilot actually flies the plane, & lands in a safe place far away. An excavating crew digs a huge hole in the ground at pre-selected location, where small amount of debris is placed, from old airplane parts. Since all are "fake", no real burial needs to be done. People are only being paid to pretend they are Mrs. Abbot or Mr. Costello, for 15 minutes, so they are only paid a few bucks. A few photographers have been allowed to film the airport during departure, & later on, a fake report of Obituary is placed in the local newspaper. Voila' IT IS DONE.

    As I said, ANYTHING can be faked. And the movie producers, & CIA agencies are real good at it. They could even fake a report of a mysterious vanishing airplane like Malaysia Flight 370, a 777 jet, which disappeared over 3 wks ago. Hmmm Where do you think they are?