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Does this really belong in our schools?

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  • Democrat
    Oregon
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    There is a middle school in Florida that has started a Young Marines program. Does the military really have business being involved in the education of our youth? Is this Young Marines program really appropriate for preparing our youth for the high tech careers of the future?

    http://www.enrollvenicemiddle.info/young-marines.html

    Doesn't schools like the Sarah E Goode STEM Academy provide a better way to prepare our kids for the future?

    http://www.my9nj.com/story/24720844/chicagos-sarah-e-goode-academy-featured-on-...

    http://citizenibm.com/2014/02/litow_time_sarah_goode.html

    I don't see much value in the Young Marines program. Shouldn't we establish more STEM academies rather than increase the number of Young Marines?
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    If the intent is to create little Rambo's than this program has no business in a middle school. However, if the intent is to teach discipline, model character, building strength in body and mind than I don't have any problem. The Marines have altered the lives of thousands that were in a criminal life. War aside, the Marines adapt and overcome obstruction in life and provide successful for young men.

    I see your point though about Marines possibly making little war mongers to grow up with ability to kill and maim. That's war and the preparation of war. This should not be in the middle school.

    This program you describe sounds like many programs that youth can get into that teaches life skills preparing the youth for success into adulthood. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Young Ambassadors, Peace Corp, many Church Youth groups on Missions, Aviation Clubs, Robotic Clubs, College Prep Groups, Chemistry Clubs, debate Teams, ROTC and many, many others all have their disciplines to learn in order to be a member. I see kids in military looking uniforms all the time and often think, that's a time used to the fullest for learning. I'd rather see our children in these clubs than lounging all day playing video games, munching snacks 15 hours a day, getting into trouble with the law, and joining gangs to steal, rob and kill something.

    An increase in STEM programs is a great, but how many kids are going to be interested? This Young Marines Program sounds like it has an attraction. Stem Programs shouldn't be the only ingredient in the salad. It's a large world for the child absorb, let the child decide and please don't be one of those parents that FORCE their child into something. That never works well and creates a barrier between you and the child.

    It could be worse, a child could have a desire to go a Military Academy. Those Academies do have great results on kids, but I sometimes question the practices that are published in the media. Maybe a research into the Young Marines Program is in order. I have an assumption you are anti-military, which is the real reason being against the Marines teaching our children.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    Pretty much what AmcmurryFreedom said.
  • Independent
    Widefield, CO
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    From what I can tell its essentially a full day JROTC program. JROTC is common in many high schools now, and aren't creating little Rambo's... Also it looks like most of the money is coming from the Marines (taking some of the burden off the school to pay for programs), contributors, and fees the parents have to pay. The parents pay for their child to rent the uniforms, unlike most high school JROTC programs. As for the STEM schools, I support those too. Have both, the more options available the better. Also considering that I've met some marines that do nuclear physics, rocket science, and some of the top high tech careers you can name, and they were trained by the Marines, I'd say the Young Marine's program is appropriate to preparing them for high tech careers.

    Which means, surprisingly, I agree with AMC. (AMC, I hope that doesn't make you want to change your opinion...)
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: If the intent is to create little Rambo's than this program has no business in a middle school. However, if the intent is to teach discipline, model character, building strength in body and mind than I don't have any problem. The Marines have altered the lives of thousands that were in a criminal life. War aside, the Marines adapt and overcome obstruction in life and provide successful for young men.

    I see your point though about Marines possibly making little war mongers to grow up with ability to kill and maim. That's war and the preparation of war. This should not be in the middle school.

    This program you describe sounds like many programs that youth can get into that teaches life skills preparing the youth for success into adulthood. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Young Ambassadors, Peace Corp, many Church Youth groups on Missions, Aviation Clubs, Robotic Clubs, College Prep Groups, Chemistry Clubs, debate Teams, ROTC and many, many others all have their disciplines to learn in order to be a member. I see kids in military looking uniforms all the time and often think, that's a time used to the fullest for learning. I'd rather see our children in these clubs than lounging all day playing video games, munching snacks 15 hours a day, getting into trouble with the law, and joining gangs to steal, rob and kill something.

    An increase in STEM programs is a great, but how many kids are going to be interested? This Young Marines Program sounds like it has an attraction. Stem Programs shouldn't be the only ingredient in the salad. It's a large world for the child absorb, let the child decide and please don't be one of those parents that FORCE their child into something. That never works well and creates a barrier between you and the child.

    It could be worse, a child could have a desire to go a Military Academy. Those Academies do have great results on kids, but I sometimes question the practices that are published in the media. Maybe a research into the Young Marines Program is in order. I have an assumption you are anti-military, which is the real reason being against the Marines teaching our children.
    No, no this does not belong in schools!! Schools should be the place where a kid develops its own skills; not be trained to be a robot or Rambo's; discipline is supposed to be taught at home, by the parents. Any school should have school rules and behavior disciplines in place; so no other requirements are needed except teaching in such way that these kids realize that they will have to enter the society at a certain age and find a job and have the neccesary job skills. Marine training, uniforms nor guns belong in the classroom.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Dutch, the problem with not having these options (programs, such as Young Marines) is that those parents you speak of hardly exist. Those parents have high expectations that they send their children to school, which alleviates "their" responsibility to manage their children. Sending them to school is now the "Schools" responsibility to manage their children. It's as if the school has the total responsibility to teach, discipline, and build children's character eliminating the parents responsibility. Parents today, take less responsibility in raising their children than ever before. It's like a disease separating the family unit. My daughter is a teacher and many of my friends are teachers, both retired and active. All of them, yes, all of them indicate that parents are ridiculously absent minded about their children. It gets so bad that upon teachers conferences the parents ridicule, challenge and blame the teachers for their child's subpar performance and unruly character in class. These parents have even threatened teachers with bodily harm and law suits.

    Now that it has been noted above, these programs that allow options to students and their parents provide teachable enhancements to build character, to become physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. So what's wrong with that? The Young Marines, Air Cadets, ROTC, Sea Cadets and all these military type instruction programs offer great opportunities to build character. Your wrong when you think that they are creating little Rambo's or war machines. They do not receive that training until they enlist into the Armed forces. Although, they practice skills handling a mock rifle for unison drilling for marching, but doesn't the school band do that also? For the skills training in handling live guns with ammo, they learn marksmen ship and proper safety handling of a gun, but doesn't the Boy scouts, Girl Scouts, most all Child Summer Camp activities include this in their events? Even sensible parents that have a gun in the house usually for protection and/or hunting will teach their child the proper safety handling and skill of a weapon. So, what's the big deal over-the-top attitude on the Young Marines? Oh, I get it, because it has "Marines" in the name that causes you to believe they are teaching little Rambo's to go along with their "video games", thus becoming war mongering machines. This is a little over-the-top even for you, Dutch.

    I'm all for more STEM Programs, but I realize that many students do not gravitate toward with an interest in science. If you attempt to push them in a singular direction, aren't you trying to force education down their throats. Most all teachers will tell you that is not teaching, that is what Communism does to it's population.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: Dutch, the problem with not having these options (programs, such as Young Marines) is that those parents you speak of hardly exist. Those parents have high expectations that they send their children to school, which alleviates "their" responsibility to manage their children. Sending them to school is now the "Schools" responsibility to manage their children. It's as if the school has the total responsibility to teach, discipline, and build children's character eliminating the parents responsibility. Parents today, take less responsibility in raising their children than ever before. It's like a disease separating the family unit. My daughter is a teacher and many of my friends are teachers, both retired and active. All of them, yes, all of them indicate that parents are ridiculously absent minded about their children. It gets so bad that upon teachers conferences the parents ridicule, challenge and blame the teachers for their child's subpar performance and unruly character in class. These parents have even threatened teachers with bodily harm and law suits.

    Now that it has been noted above, these programs that allow options to students and their parents provide teachable enhancements to build character, to become physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. So what's wrong with that? The Young Marines, Air Cadets, ROTC, Sea Cadets and all these military type instruction programs offer great opportunities to build character. Your wrong when you think that they are creating little Rambo's or war machines. They do not receive that training until they enlist into the Armed forces. Although, they practice skills handling a mock rifle for unison drilling for marching, but doesn't the school band do that also? For the skills training in handling live guns with ammo, they learn marksmen ship and proper safety handling of a gun, but doesn't the Boy scouts, Girl Scouts, most all Child Summer Camp activities include this in their events? Even sensible parents that have a gun in the house usually for protection and/or hunting will teach their child the proper safety handling and skill of a weapon. So, what's the big deal over-the-top attitude on the Young Marines? Oh, I get it, because it has "Marines" in the name that causes you to believe they are teaching little Rambo's to go along with their "video games", thus becoming war mongering machines. This is a little over-the-top even for you, Dutch.

    I'm all for more STEM Programs, but I realize that many students do not gravitate toward with an interest in science. If you attempt to push them in a singular direction, aren't you trying to force education down their throats. Most all teachers will tell you that is not teaching, that is what Communism does to it's population.
    Your first section says it all; if parents in this country act indeed that way, then all is lost; you may as well reinstitute the Hitler Jugend training.
    Sorry to say, I do not understand why those parents get kids, they may as well adopt a turtle which you only have to feed once a day; kids are no "toy's" which you hand of to someone else to "model" them into the "teachers" mindset. No wonder kids here kill their parents once in a while.
    Why not train them to become "teaparty" members as soon as they left their diapers?
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    This thinking is typical of the violent, superiority complex that way to many Americans have today!

    The military doesn't belong in our public schools any more than religion does. The whole idea is get the kids when they are young and infuse them with the kind of anti social behavior and thinking that defines both the military and religion.

    People don't want to face reality but typically the average person joins the military because they are either a loser, uneducated and looking for free education or suffering from problems of low sef-esteem and violence. You can try and color it any way you like but the real patriots in any society are the dissenters and thinkers, not the followers and being a follower is all the military is really about.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Denton, TX
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    pr Wrote: This thinking is typical of the violent, superiority complex that way to many Americans have today!

    The military doesn't belong in our public schools any more than religion does. The whole idea is get the kids when they are young and infuse them with the kind of anti social behavior and thinking that defines both the military and religion.

    People don't want to face reality but typically the average person joins the military because they are either a loser, uneducated and looking for free education or suffering from problems of low sef-esteem and violence. You can try and color it any way you like but the real patriots in any society are the dissenters and thinkers, not the followers and being a follower is all the military is really about.
    Pretty much disagree with everything you said here.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/join_the_army_or_go_to_jail/

    pr Wrote: This thinking is typical of the violent, superiority complex that way to many Americans have today!

    The military doesn't belong in our public schools any more than religion does. The whole idea is get the kids when they are young and infuse them with the kind of anti social behavior and thinking that defines both the military and religion.

    People don't want to face reality but typically the average person joins the military because they are either a loser, uneducated and looking for free education or suffering from problems of low sef-esteem and violence. You can try and color it any way you like but the real patriots in any society are the dissenters and thinkers, not the followers and being a follower is all the military is really about.
    ===================

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/join_the_army_or_go_to_jail/

    A number of our fine young military are individuals who went to jail and were suddenly offered a get out of jail free card. You can get out of jail by joining the military. I heard an interview of Navy members last week on NPR. One guy had a very negative attitude. He was there because after being arrested for drugs and sentenced to 7 years.... he was offered a chance to join the military. Nothing like getting the best of the best.

    % of military who joined to get out of jail: A difficult topic to get a number for. The above article speaks on the topic for 2006. I thought Wiki would have something but - no. Nothing current found. I'm sure there's more/better info out there but I've not found it. It appeared that in 2006 it was 17%
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Sounds like Sara Palin's punk son's story!
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    I have to disagree with you (PGR) on that response. Heck, if we have your kind of opinion, we should ban books, burn them. We sure don't want to teach our children anything you disapprove of, especially our history of America and it's Independence built on the service (Military) of people called into action. Heck, might as well burn the US Constitution and the US Flag, our Armed Forces fought and died for those treasures of our countries birth. As you burn all these books and America's treasuries, might as well go up to a Service Man/Woman coming back from duty overseas and spit on their uniform. PGR, that response you gave is the lowest form of what an American can give. Are you a US Citizen? If not, you can please leave and don't let the door hit you where the sun don't shine.

    This was just a simple discussion about the person who started this thread about the Young Marines in middle school. This group is just like any other group in our schools and offers great opportunities for young people to learn character and build self esteem. What's your answer? Please don't respond with teaching only a rigid group of activities. You should know by now our country was built on rebellion and our children sure know how to rebel to people like you that orchestrates a curriculum that maybe only Republican would approve of. I know several brilliant young men in the Boy Scouts that also attend ROTC and the Air Cadets. Both these programs are subsidized by the military and these students do where their respective uniforms at times and they have rank/class. Will they join the military when old enough, maybe or maybe not, it's their decision, not yours and not mine. The Young Marines are just another similar group to join and be part of for a young person desiring something better to do than smoke dope, play video games and get into trouble. They might be in a STEM program, Debate Team, or Sports, but hey make a choice what they want to do and it our responsibility to open as many doors as we can to challenge and provide options for young people to make their decisions. How else are young people going to grow up, because you sure don't have the answer by restricting their opportunities. Republican's agenda is control America with telling what women can do with their personal bodies, what kids are taught in school, and deny our freedoms, such as legal voting. I've had enough of this controlling attitude of political parties and people telling what I can and can't do. Now, they want to control our children by banning opportunities furthering their education, I'm die hard liberal and democrat with bright blue pumping in my veins, I oppose anybody wanting to object to freedom teaching in our schools. Support freedom of our educational system and root out all who want to ban programs or books based on their irresponsible beliefs on military objections, religion, race, sex, human rights, and let's pick a new one...........Gay rights.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    If I agreed with you all, all of the time then none of you would have the opportunity to ask yourselves why you believe what you believe. Sometimes you might even discover something that surprises you! ;)


    PS - why are we fighting in Afghanistan? Is it to make all those Afghans that Americans love and care about so deeply, free and safe or is there another, more sinister, reason? Good question to ask your local ROTC leader or better still religious leader.
  • Democrat
    Washington
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    Hi I think we should not have a professional army. I think an unpaid force of citizen soldiers would be a great idea. I was told that a citizen soldier would be less likely than a professional soldier to shoot at the American population if ordered to. One of my teachers in High School told me that professional armies throughout history have been used to oppress people. I was a Civil Air Patrol cadet during my youth. . I had fun and got my private pilots license I never joined the military though. I am in college right now pursuing a degree in sociology. The JROTC cadets that I know of oppose the wars in the Middle East and are no fans of the NSA
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    pgr you ask ..."why are we fighting in Afghanistan?"...

    That's a great question for our political "leaders", not ROTC or religious leaders.

    We are fighting in Afghanistan because of bad decisions by our presidents and our Congress.

    Bush was stupid enough to get us in that war, and Obama was stupid enough to keep us in that war. Not only was he stupid enough to keep us in it, but President Obama decided to make that war bigger by increasing the number of American troops in that useless war.

    The Army doesn't decide to go to war, they go to war when and where our so called "leaders" tell them to go.

    Why are we fighting in Afghanistan? The stupidity of two American presidents.