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New thread, Same Story...Gun Control....What now?

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    I agree you shouldn't drink and drive, and there are laws that say just that , but they still do and at an increasing rate, guns and booze is a bad mix, but outlawing it would not prevent someone from doing it, that is my point, stricter enforcement is needed not more laws that won't be adhered to.
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    http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearm-accessories/gun-cleaning/articles/1764925-Where-did-all-the-bullets-go/shot

    Where did all the bullets go ? Good question. The majority of bullets shot by police don't hit the target. The above article suggests that at best 30% hit what was intended. 70% do not. I've heard it said that the actual pct. hit may be lower yet. It's something that cops don't like to keep track of, or talk about. These are people who get a lot of training to be as good as they can be. Imagine the inaccuracy of amateurs.

    More details are in the above link.
    Theodore Roosevelt said while he was the NYC Police Commish, In the case of a gun fight, how wonderful it was how few of the bullets shot actually hit the person they were aimed at.
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    TJ Wrote: http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearm-accessories/gun-cleaning/articles/1764925-Where-did-all-the-bullets-go/shot

    Where did all the bullets go ? Good question. The majority of bullets shot by police don't hit the target. The above article suggests that at best 30% hit what was intended. 70% do not. I've heard it said that the actual pct. hit may be lower yet. It's something that cops don't like to keep track of, or talk about. These are people who get a lot of training to be as good as they can be. Imagine the inaccuracy of amateurs.

    More details are in the above link.
    Theodore Roosevelt said while he was the NYC Police Commish, In the case of a gun fight, how wonderful it was how few of the bullets shot actually hit the person they were aimed at.
    Tony, I can't speak for any other officer but myself, I made it my business to shoot weekly at an approved range, more for familiarity
    with my weapon and to also improve my marksmanship, I knew of officers who only went to the range when required, with my department, it was re-qualification yearly plus yearly legal updates classes. These officers took a serious risk with their careers and also with their well being and of course their partners, when there are civil liabilities being addressed, one of the first things that the lawyers ask ,is about your weapons training and how often you fire your weapon at a range. Once a year is not getting it done,

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    Johnnycee,

    If as you said, "guns and booze do not mix", than your logic, why create a new law when it cannot be enforced. That's society fault and law enforcement's job. If the law isn't developed than how will a police office arrest and charge an offender with a gun and booze?

    The logic begs to differ your comment. The law or ordinance must be created to allow the arrest and detainment of anybody carrying a gun and consuming alcohol. Your right, guns and alcohol don't mix, but do not ignore the fact that a police officer has no authority to arrest the person if the law does not exist. Citizens are right to champion the creation of a law prohibiting gun carries and alcohol consumption, in fact the way the new Kansas City ordinance is written it is unlawful for a person to carry a gun into an establishment that serves alcohol, thus creating the separation factor between guns and alcohol possibility of being socially mixed.

    Check your state, it may be similar to Missouri that does not have a law as such prohibiting gun carry and alcohol consumption. This old thought of guns and alcohol are carry over from the days of a people bellying up to the bar with their side arms at the waist. This has got to stop for humanity to evolve to less killing of each other.

    Support stricter Gun Laws and mental health initiatives.
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    We discussed this a while back. It doesn't matter how often you go to the shooting range and how good of a marksman you are. None of that target practice is a real life situation when the adrenalin is flowing, your heart is pumping furiously and your sweaty hands are shaking uncontrollably. You shoot and miss...it's a fact of your biological make-up. That's why policeman are only human. How often do they have to draw their guns with the possible intent of shooting someone?

    And the gun cult wants to arm teachers in the class room?
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    JC,
    Did you read the article on the link ? It suggests that shooting a paper target is not the same as a real life situation. Nobody at the range is shooting at you. I hope that you read the article. The end of the article suggests that the man writing it had many years of training in the field of training officers. I think it was good info. Part of the shots fired that made up the 30% included shots at dog, shots at cars, and suicides. Those are going to pad the stats.
    Please read the article because it's about sharing information. I'm sure a dozen sources will give you a dozen different sets of data, but I have no reason to doubt this one.
    **** also interesting was the comments below the article *****
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: Johnnycee,

    If as you said, "guns and booze do not mix", than your logic, why create a new law when it cannot be enforced. That's society fault and law enforcement's job. If the law isn't developed than how will a police office arrest and charge an offender with a gun and booze?

    The logic begs to differ your comment. The law or ordinance must be created to allow the arrest and detainment of anybody carrying a gun and consuming alcohol. Your right, guns and alcohol don't mix, but do not ignore the fact that a police officer has no authority to arrest the person if the law does not exist. Citizens are right to champion the creation of a law prohibiting gun carries and alcohol consumption, in fact the way the new Kansas City ordinance is written it is unlawful for a person to carry a gun into an establishment that serves alcohol, thus creating the separation factor between guns and alcohol possibility of being socially mixed.

    Check your state, it may be similar to Missouri that does not have a law as such prohibiting gun carry and alcohol consumption. This old thought of guns and alcohol are carry over from the days of a people bellying up to the bar with their side arms at the waist. This has got to stop for humanity to evolve to less killing of each other.

    Support stricter Gun Laws and mental health initiatives.



    If you are going to quote me then please use the entire quote, my statement referred to the lack of enforcement of current laws, logic then dictates that if the current laws are not being enforced properly then what makes you think that a new law will be enforced properly, my State, Pa. is an open carry State, and you need a permit to carry concealed, and as far as humanity is concerned, we will always be a species of predation, that is our nature, other than plants, all species on this planet are of one of two things, predator or prey, to get to an evolved state of non-killing , we have to weed out (kill in some manner) those who will still rely on the predator -prey mantra, now once we reach this advanced state ,how will this society maintain that level, the instinct of self preservation, defending ones self from death, will still be strong, so someone has to be in charge and of course enforce any new laws that this new society deems necessary to keep its society healthy and violence free. I think the new name for this wonderful place should be something like Heaven, Vallaha ,Paradise or even Xandau.
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    Johnnycee,

    In reference to your previous response, you are spinning the subject again. Let me restate it more clearly. Does your state prohibit gun carry while consuming alcohol? Does your state have a law to arrest or detain a person found carrying a gun and consuming alcohol? Does your state prohibit with a clear enacted law that prohibits individuals carrying guns into a public establishment that serves alcohol?

    If you can answer, "YES" to all the above, I have no problem with that and fully support it. This is what Missouri has not done and the good citizens of Kansas City has endorsed an ordinance doing the above prohibiting guns while consuming or in an establishment that serves alcohol. Yes, I support it fully and am happy that smarter people prevailed over the idiots that promote gun violence ignoring the facts about an impaired gun carrying person about to commit something they would not have done if not drinking.

    Let's not confuse the issue with Republican spin on things. Apparently, most all states do not have a law supporting the prohibition of guns and alcohol, so Americans are still living the old west days. Americans just haven't evolved significantly in the past 200 years. There is gun control advocacy continuing and we will better improve our fascination with guns.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: Johnnycee,

    In reference to your previous response, you are spinning the subject again. Let me restate it more clearly. Does your state prohibit gun carry while consuming alcohol? Does your state have a law to arrest or detain a person found carrying a gun and consuming alcohol? Does your state prohibit with a clear enacted law that prohibits individuals carrying guns into a public establishment that serves alcohol?

    If you can answer, "YES" to all the above, I have no problem with that and fully support it. This is what Missouri has not done and the good citizens of Kansas City has endorsed an ordinance doing the above prohibiting guns while consuming or in an establishment that serves alcohol. Yes, I support it fully and am happy that smarter people prevailed over the idiots that promote gun violence ignoring the facts about an impaired gun carrying person about to commit something they would not have done if not drinking.

    Let's not confuse the issue with Republican spin on things. Apparently, most all states do not have a law supporting the prohibition of guns and alcohol, so Americans are still living the old west days. Americans just haven't evolved significantly in the past 200 years. There is gun control advocacy continuing and we will better improve our fascination with guns.
    There is no spinning being done here by me, you are having a hard time understanding your own convoluted logic, so now you bring up inane questions regarding laws that prohibit carrying while impaired, In Pa. to the best of my knowledge there is no law that states specifically that you cannot open carry while drunk or otherwise impaired, if however ,you have a concealed carry permit , the permit can be revoked , now that you are better informed as what pa. allows or doesn't allow, now lets get back on point about the your vision of evolving to the point of Nirvana and my response to what is human nature.
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    Finally, I got a response on the original issue. To answer your last sentence of questions, my Nirvana does not include guns, nor violence of any kind, and that mankind has evolved to simplicity of life without threats of aggression, disease and sadness. Only happiness reigns in my Nirvana. Helping humanity reach Nirvana is a goal that will be passed on through generations of people, which I understand the new group now are called the Millennia. So, as people evolve past wars and GUNs, we won't need the enforcement of laws on alcohol combined with guns.

    Human nature is as bad as it can get. There is too many factors to explain, which Human Nature is a college course in it's self. When society can simplify the nature of the human than maybe we can start to evolve to my Nirvana.

    Support Strict Gun Control and Mental Health Initiatives. It's a great contribution to humanity.
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    I continue to be amazed by the people in our society who believe that more guns will make us safer.

    Every year in America, an average of 760 people die from ACCIDENTAL shootings, and states with the highest gun ownership levels had 9 times the rate of unintentional firearms deaths compared to states that had the lowest gun ownership levels.

    http://nyagv.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Accidental-Shootings-NYAGV.pdf

    Rand Paul is one of the folks who believe that having more guns makes us all safer, which is why he introduced an amendment to a Post Office reform bill on February 1 that would make it legal to carry a firearm into the Post Offices around the country:

    http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/02/sen-rand-paul-wants-to-allow-guns-in-post-offices-2888518.html

    Personally, I thing it's a very bad idea:







    I'm of the opinion that not everyone who wants a gun should be able to own one, and an example from my hometown of Flagstaff just yesterday explains why.


    http://azdailysun.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/when-shooting-yourself-in-the-foot-pull-over/article_bf7a4322-a684-11e3-a455-001a4bcf887a.html

    One of our gun owning geniuses picked up his Heckler and Koch pistol from a local gun store local, where he had some barrel work done. Although Arizona law requires that weapons must be transported inside the glove compartment of a vehicle, he decided to transport his weapon inside his vehicle on the passenger seat.

    On the way home, he noticed that the gun was cocked. Rather than pull over to uncock the weapon, he decided to uncock it while driving. As you may have already surmised, he managed to shoot himself in the foot. Rather than stopping to call for help, he decided to drive to a local hospital for treatment. Due to the fact that his wound caused a fair amount of blood loss, he passed out from loss of blood, and crashed into a tree. Emergency workers had to cut down the tree in order to remove the man from his wrecked vehicle.

    http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/arizona-gun-laws.html
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    Arizona, nice response...................I've been Postal for a long time on a variety of issues and guns are Postal Bad.

    I did a inquiry on the State of Arizona Laws on Guns and Alcohol. As I understand the State recently passed a new carry law in establishments that serve alcohol. The law prohibits the carry of guns into establishments serving alcohol as a Class 2 Misdemeanor. Owners of restaurants and bars are rushing to get signage indicating "No Firearms on Premise", or "Your 2nd Amendment don't work here". I like the 2nd one.

    I understand that 39 states in America do not have such a law, including Missouri, however Kansas City within Missouri has passed a city Ordinance such as what Arizona State has. Gun Control Laws are evolving, but slowly. I just do not understand people who approve of guns and alcohol in any situation.

    I was surprised as to what I found in Arizona. I would thought it would be the other way being more of the Wild West than most. I appreciate your State for doing this. I also totally agree with you America has way too many guns and opportunities to shoot on sight. A Church friend of my wife and I has lost her husband two years ago. While jogging as usually near his home a drive-by shooter took his life because he could and having a gun. They still have not found the shooter, but it remains in media news and as a crime statistic, a senseless killing of a man that wouldn't hurt anybody. Yes, I'm Postal-Bad on guns.

    Support Strict Gun Control and Mental Health Initiatives!


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    amcmurry:


    Thanks for the update. To me, not having guns in bars makes an awful lot of sense, but North Caroline just passed a law that would allow people to do so.

    I frequently write directly to members of the Arizona legislature when I discover a bill that doesn't make any sense, and I usually get a personal response from somebody. Obviously, SB 1062 was one of those, but I'm also trying to stop a couple of more silly gun laws, and get the legislature to pass universal background checks.

    There has actually been a bill submitted in the Senate that would do exactly that, but it hasn't got much traction so far.

    My wife and I watched Dallas Buyers Club last night, which was a great movie. Inevitably, it caused me to do some research on pharmaceutical companies, which eventually circled back to the discussion about guns.

    In 2012, pharmaceutical sales of the 10 largest drug companies were $441 billion. Like Schmidt always says, "follow the money":

    http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-reports/johnson-johnson

    The number 1 selling drug in America is something called Abilify, which had annual sales of $1.6 billion. The drug is used to treat psychosis and depression. To me, that means that there are an awful lot of people who shouldn't be allowed to own guns.


    http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_selling_pharmaceutical_products


    On 16 January 2013, President Obama announced a list of 23 executive actions intended to address the issue of gun violence in the U.S., one of which was to "clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes" (to counter the claim that a provision of "Obamacare" legislation barred doctors from asking such questions). Nothing in that action mandated that doctors must ask such questions of Medicare patients (or any other patients), however.


    The NRA, naturally, doesn't want your doctor to ask about guns in the house:






    The 7th most prescribed drug on the list, with sales of just over $1 billion, is Cymbalta, which is also used to treat depression and anxiety disorders. I'm not a doctor, but I would think that any doctor who prescribes either Abilify or Cymbalta and doesn't ask about guns in the house should be charged with negligence.
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    Re the main point:

    New thread, Same Story...Gun Control....What now?

    Well my best thought is:

    If teachers, well educated professionals, already holding positions of responsibility need background checks and training before being armed, why do others buying guns not need the same ?

    It is a strong point build upon the conservatives own solutions, that should go viral !

    I'm not big on social media, so, anyone, if that is your kind of thing

    please, feel free to Tweet it, post it repeatedly on Face-book and Reddit.

    You know, all the stuff that the Russians do.

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    "Forty thousand people were killed in shootings last year amid a growing number of suicides involving firearms, CDC reveals"

    theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/13/us-...

    These are troubling statistics. I hope democrats revisit gun control when they take over the house.