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Obama Care / United States Government and Civil Rights

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  • Democrat
    Baldwin, NY
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    Is it ethical for a Democratic government to create a law that that goes against our constitutional rights?

    As a hard working American Citizen that has paid my taxes every year and struggled to survive through the growing cost of living I find it obserd for our government to deem something affordable based on income brackets. They should have to move into our house, pay our bills off the income and then see whats left at the end of the year... The anwser.. Nothing! So.... Whats affordable?
    A short run down on cost of living on Long Island..
    Taxes on the house/ Mortgage: 33,770
    Lipa : 2,952
    Gas : 1,584
    Water : 480
    Income Taxes : 4,406

    Total : 43,192.64

    Our income : 42,049.42

    Our situation places us @ -1,143.22
    Mind you that this number doesn't factor in normal living expenses, such as food and gas and car insurance.
    It doesn't factor in a trip to the movies, a drink or a nice dinner.

    Can the government add another expense to the list that is quote..unquote..."AFFORDABLE"
    We have 5 people living and struggling in our house - none of which can save a dime working check to check in order not to loose the house.

    There are countries that have successfully deployed Healthcare options to people. Why must Obama feel the need to reinvent the wheel by attaching our constitutional rights as Americans?

    The answer as far as I can see - Health care lobbyists and big business

    The poverty level is set around 25,000 for a family of 4 (NO ONE CAN LIVE OFF THAT) - That number should be between 50 - 100,000 a year. My personal opinion is that there are currently two classes in this country and the middle class has been systematically wiped out. There is the 2 -5% of people well off and around 70-90% of people on the verge of severe financial trouble squeaking by every day. There is also I would say a small percentage of people that fall into the 6 figure category that are not rich but stable - Around 10%

    The penalty for no insurance is $97 by the end of 2014 and scheduled to go up every year there after.
    The lowest affordable plan for my mother is $331 a month with a 6,700 deductible. Roughly $10,672 addition to her already negative situation.
    It is clearly not affordable and cheaper to pay a penalty...? Pay the government a penalty on something we didn't ask for?
    Is that constitutional to be penalized for being to poor to afford health care?

    It is my opinion that by the end of Obamas' last term that this plan will be thrown out. It's an atrocity.
    I really wanted him to be remembered as a president that helped us and made changes for the better but I fear that his hands were tied and he failed dismally. I did vote for him and am very let down by our government. I believe they have failed us all and the future for now is bleak at best.

    A small moment of reflection on democracy :

    Howard Stern - Forced out of public radio to satalite - Freedom of Speech tested -1 Freedom +1 Gov.
    Smoking - Outlawed in public establishments. -1 Freedom +1 Gov.
    Soft Drink Laws - Regarding size of salable Containers. - 1 Freedom +1 Gov.

    I will admit that the drink laws and smoking laws come from a good place... But...... They CLEARLY go against the foundation of our four fathers Vision. They clearly warp our constitution.

    ASK YOURSELF

    Where and when will it end?
    Is our country still a Democracy?
    Is the Electoral College Necessary? - It clearly failed during portions of the Bush administration - It was created in a time when the government felt that the individual was uneducated and that the individuals vote should be represented by a more intelligent representative.

    At this point in our society we have the technology to count EVERY ONES VOTE and I believe that voters are intelligent and that the electoral college Clearly dismisses the individual opinion. It is lost.

    The list goes on and on.... I welcome all thoughts on this post and Wish You all Happy Holidays
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    smiannarone Wrote: Is it ethical for a Democratic government to create a law that that goes against our constitutional rights?

    As a hard working American Citizen that has paid my taxes every year and struggled to survive through the growing cost of living I find it obserd for our government to deem something affordable based on income brackets. They should have to move into our house, pay our bills off the income and then see whats left at the end of the year... The anwser.. Nothing! So.... Whats affordable?
    A short run down on cost of living on Long Island..
    Taxes on the house/ Mortgage: 33,770
    Lipa : 2,952
    Gas : 1,584
    Water : 480
    Income Taxes : 4,406

    Total : 43,192.64

    Our income : 42,049.42

    Our situation places us @ -1,143.22
    Mind you that this number doesn't factor in normal living expenses, such as food and gas and car insurance.
    It doesn't factor in a trip to the movies, a drink or a nice dinner.

    Can the government add another expense to the list that is quote..unquote..."AFFORDABLE"
    We have 5 people living and struggling in our house - none of which can save a dime working check to check in order not to loose the house.

    There are countries that have successfully deployed Healthcare options to people. Why must Obama feel the need to reinvent the wheel by attaching our constitutional rights as Americans?

    The answer as far as I can see - Health care lobbyists and big business

    The poverty level is set around 25,000 for a family of 4 (NO ONE CAN LIVE OFF THAT) - That number should be between 50 - 100,000 a year. My personal opinion is that there are currently two classes in this country and the middle class has been systematically wiped out. There is the 2 -5% of people well off and around 70-90% of people on the verge of severe financial trouble squeaking by every day. There is also I would say a small percentage of people that fall into the 6 figure category that are not rich but stable - Around 10%

    The penalty for no insurance is $97 by the end of 2014 and scheduled to go up every year there after.
    The lowest affordable plan for my mother is $331 a month with a 6,700 deductible. Roughly $10,672 addition to her already negative situation.
    It is clearly not affordable and cheaper to pay a penalty...? Pay the government a penalty on something we didn't ask for?
    Is that constitutional to be penalized for being to poor to afford health care?

    It is my opinion that by the end of Obamas' last term that this plan will be thrown out. It's an atrocity.
    I really wanted him to be remembered as a president that helped us and made changes for the better but I fear that his hands were tied and he failed dismally. I did vote for him and am very let down by our government. I believe they have failed us all and the future for now is bleak at best.

    A small moment of reflection on democracy :

    Howard Stern - Forced out of public radio to satalite - Freedom of Speech tested -1 Freedom +1 Gov.
    Smoking - Outlawed in public establishments. -1 Freedom +1 Gov.
    Soft Drink Laws - Regarding size of salable Containers. - 1 Freedom +1 Gov.

    I will admit that the drink laws and smoking laws come from a good place... But...... They CLEARLY go against the foundation of our four fathers Vision. They clearly warp our constitution.

    ASK YOURSELF

    Where and when will it end?
    Is our country still a Democracy?
    Is the Electoral College Necessary? - It clearly failed during portions of the Bush administration - It was created in a time when the government felt that the individual was uneducated and that the individuals vote should be represented by a more intelligent representative.

    At this point in our society we have the technology to count EVERY ONES VOTE and I believe that voters are intelligent and that the electoral college Clearly dismisses the individual opinion. It is lost.

    The list goes on and on.... I welcome all thoughts on this post and Wish You all Happy Holidays
    Your question: " Is our country still a democracy?" just a simple answer: It is not!!!

    We love the word "capitalism" which we formulated the US way. Right now this country is run by the filthy rich, the Pentagon, the lobbyists, and of course "money" for the 10%.

    Anyone who still believes the US is an example for the world is mistaken; we are running behind in just about all area's except the military and our Apple phones (which are not even made here) Our cities are going down the drain like Detroit; our poor are getting poorer by the day; the rich are getting richer by the day. We love our useless wars and worthless uniforms plastered with junk; sure that will help our infrastructure and the poor.
    Wake up America; start by changing things at "home" instead of trying to run the whole world and telling them what to do and believe.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    At this point in time , I think we should try isolationism for a bit, hell, we got enough big boys war toys so we don't have worry about invaded or something, I feel that we should try and let the World roll along without us for while , like it did before we came on the scene. Concentrate on our own problems with infrastructure and governing, when we get that righted , then maybe we should go about being a so-called World power.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Isolationism. The USA did that right after WWI and the result was WWII. We stayed "over there" after WWll and we haven't had WWlll yet. I don't think we will ..."try isolationism"... again anytime soon. I do agree that the US should pull back somewhat, but I don't think that there's much chance that we are going to pull all the way back in true isolationism. That's just fantasy. And there's some countries, especially in Asia and the Middle East that don't want us to pull all the way back. Some of them may outwardly SAY they want us to pull back, but behind the scenes they want us there.

    Maybe we should pull back, I'm just saying it's not likely. One reason is that the companies that make all the weapons OWN enough of our elected officials to keep the military budgets at these high levels. The big weapons manufacturers make the big bucks, the politicians collect their kickbacks and special favors and everyone's happy. And WE get to pay for it.

    We can still be a ..."World power"... with out being stretched out so far around the globe. The most we can hope for is small (and realistic) reductions, and let's be honest, since the cold war ended we have pulled back quite a bit.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Oh, I know that is just fantasy but you are right about who owns what in this country, and I still don't see the need for bigger, and not necessarilly better either, weapons of war, if the enemy has found a way to neutralize your weapon then by all means find a way to either adapt, modify or make new a weapon, but just to spend and waste some much money on R&D is just wrong and then not hold accountable these defense corp. for so-called cost overruns, in my mind your bid is your bid, so do the job for the price you said you could do it for, it's not the governments fault you couldn't factor in these probable cost overruns, suck it up and lower your profit margin, God forbid that should happen.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    johnnycee Wrote: Oh, I know that is just fantasy but you are right about who owns what in this country, and I still don't see the need for bigger, and not necessarilly better either, weapons of war, if the enemy has found a way to neutralize your weapon then by all means find a way to either adapt, modify or make new a weapon, but just to spend and waste some much money on R&D is just wrong and then not hold accountable these defense corp. for so-called cost overruns, in my mind your bid is your bid, so do the job for the price you said you could do it for, it's not the governments fault you couldn't factor in these probable cost overruns, suck it up and lower your profit margin, God forbid that should happen.
    As I said reduce the defense budget by half; we've got enough junk to kill the whole world; That does not mean we can do without it because it is also a form of employment, as well if there is a disaster they can help. However down here things are way overdone. For instance an Army Corps of Engineers is totally ridiculous. Here in Florida they are assigned to manage water ways and control water levels etc. They also meddle in mining for all kind of resources. Sorry they make a huge mess of it; they should be replaced by civil engineers. They have no clue at all about real constructive engineering whatsoever.

    This will save millions for the taxpayers if we get rid of these dumb asses; no civil country has the army do civil projects; their training does not account for fixing things, instead they only are trained into bullying and saluting etc.
  • Democrat
    Kentucky
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    I was once a staunch supporter of the ACA, but after going on their website and checking on the options, I too am questioning if this is a good idea. I am I Kentucky and have only checked on the exchanges in my area. There were only 3 ( THREE ) insurance companies competing and their options are not cheap for someone like me. I am currently unemployed, over 50 and there are no jobs here. I do not get unemployment insurance, I am not eligible for Medicare or Medicaid. I am happy for those people that can afford it and are lucky enough to get healthcare insurance at such cheap rates. I recently saw an article about a woman that found insurance for only $3.18 per month. I do not know all of her details, as they gave little in the article. Even with the subsidies, the price for me would still be over $200 a month. I cannot afford that, obviously.
    They need to re-think this and get more insurance companies on board and offer a better variety to bring the cost down. If they cannot do this, then they should consider the single-payer system. I have paid into Medicare for over 30 years and am not eligible. Is that fair to me? It will be another 15+ years before I am eligible. By then, I am not even sure if I will be eligible for Social Security.

    We have Medicare now...and everyone pays into it. We could turn it into a single payer system. The GOP/TP want to make cuts to the social programs that many rely on. Why not cut government? I agree that our military is important but we already outspend more than the next 29 countries combined. Really? Come on now. What about the 16 National Security departments we have? Do we really need 16? We could easily get rid of the Homeland Security, as it is a waste of money. Not to mention the fiasco of the NSA. Of which, they spend so much money that they refuse to even say how much they do receive. I won't even mention that huge building they have in Utah..or wherever it is, that they use for who knows what....costing us millions, if not billions of dollars a year. That money could easily be spent on a single payer system.

    Like you, the list goes on and on. The never ending war in Afghanistan which costs us millions...the billions of dollars send to arm and support the military and governments of countries of which we are not even sure they are our allies. Time to really start thinking about our people her in our own country. They want to talk about cuts....try cutting the programs I mentioned here first, then we will know they are serious.

    I won't go into the minimum wage issue...as everyone knows, except the wealthy and most of those in congress, that it is the right thing to do. Pay a decent, living wage to increase buying power. But that won't happen as long as our law makers are being paid off by the wealthy and their lobbyists. We are going down hill fast and there is nothing to stop it from happening.
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    Quincy everything you say is pretty much true. Obamacare has been or is becoming a disaster for most people, and next year may be much worse than this. Too early to say for sure, but it's not looking good. But we are stuck with it for the time being, although they have made several changes and I believe I just heard that they extended the individual enrollment (again!) to Dec 31st. Is that true? Is that the second extension, or third? Or more? They expect an insurance company to cover people who sign up one day, or one hour, or one minute prior?

    Your idea about single payer is right, if we are going to do it, then that's the only thing that has a chance of working. Of all the many problems with Obamacare, one problem is that it leaves insurance companies free to compete for our business, or so they say. What it REALLY DOES is allow the insurance companies to collude to take care of themselves and screw the rest of us.

    You mention the ..."never ending war in Afghanistan which costs us millions"... actually it costs us billions which add up to trillions. Plus how many wounded veterans of that useless war which will be supported for the rest of their lives? Far too many, and that cost will last several decades. President Obama should have ended this war at least 4 years ago. It has accomplished nothing and no one has given me any reason why it was a good idea to expand that war right after he became president.

    ..."We are going down hill fast and there is nothing to stop it from happening"... yes I'm afraid you are right, although there are some who seem to think if we just do a better job of educating people about politics it will all turn around. Yes, believe it or not, some really believe that! We are 17 trillion in debt and that alone will ruin this country. Remember that President Obama said he would cut the deficit in half but he has actually doubled it. So much for campaign promises.

    Today we also hear that President Obama has won the "Lie of the Year" award from Politifact. Didn't hear if it was the lie about how "you can keep you doctor", or the lie about how "you can keep your health plan", or the lie about how "most peoples insurance premiums will go down". Or maybe it was another lie completely unrelated to Obamacare, but maybe he can put this award on his mantle beside the Nobel Peace Prize.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    I believe it was about never having lived with his uncle that brought the liar of the year award.

    Perhaps (if Obama care does indeed fail) people will finally realize that a single payer health care (Medicare for all) is indeed necessary and the best way to solve our health care problems. I think it's much to early to say the ACA has failed however. It has problems for sure and certainly was not well thought out from the beginning (it is a a Republican plan after all) but when, and if, the Republicans stop trying to make Obama look bad and start trying to improve health care it may actually turn out to work well as did Medicare!
  • Other Party
    Nebraska
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    pgr yes that one about just barely, vaguely knowing the uncle...OOOOPS except that he lived with him for a while, that was definitely a WHOPPER! I think Obama is rapidly approaching Clinton levels of lying. Not yet, because Bill Clinton is still the all time champ! Thank goodness for the blue dress!

    If half as many people lose their current insurance next year as is being predicted, then 2014 will definitely be interesting.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    I'm sorry that your bills wind up being more than your monthly income smiannarone, but that does not mean that we are no longer a democratic republic. Democracy does not mean that everyone will be happy all of the time and get everything that they want. Democracy is based on the idea that "the people" elect representatives to do the work of the nation. The majority rules. Sometimes you will like it and other times you will not. If you don't like it, then use the democratic process to fire the representatives you dislike and elect a new one that will be more to your liking. Just stating that you or anyone else is unhappy will solve nothing.

    Everyone can find laws that they agree with and others that they don't. That is the discussion our country has been having for the past 237 years. Our country's short history is riddled with conflicting ideologies that has progressively moved us forward. We are a government of, by, and for the people. Just because you may not agree with a particular law or are upset with the way things are does not make it other wise.

    I do not disagree with you regarding the electoral college, but the problem is that the electoral college was explicitly written in Article II of the US Constitution and then modified by the passage and ratification of the Twelfth Amendment.

    Article V of the US Constitution provides two ways for the people to change this. One is by a 2/3 majority of the House and Senate ratifying this change. The other is by a national convention requested by the legislatures of 2/3 of the states. That in and of itself will not change the electoral college process. After either of those two things happen, the legislatures of 3/4 of the states or state ratifying conventions in 3/4 of the states voting in the affirmative will rid us of the electoral college.

    My point is that it is far more difficult to change our Constitution than we would like and that is on purpose. My other point is that we have changed our Constitution many times in our short history, so all hope is not lost. The Constitution passed with an initial ten amendments, otherwise known as the Bill of Rights. We have passed 17 additional Amendments since the original passage of the Constitution. It is not easy, but it is possible.
  • Independent
    California
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    I signed up to this entire site just so I could find a forum to express my outrage at this ridiculous "affordable care" act!! I want to retire in 2014- I have spent my life in healthcare-raised 2 awesome productive children. I will not be able to access my retirement healthcare until I'm 65-just part of the retirement plan. So I planned to buy my own individual plan for coverage until then (26) months. I have no illnesses, use traditional medicine more for preventive issues only (mammo, colo etc)I found the most reasonable plan I could-paid my 1st premium -$309/month then received my next bill informing me the "affordable care act" eliminated my plan-it didn't fulfill their definition for coverage. What!!?? It fulfilled MY NEEDS!!!! The premium for the "acceptable" plan went to $467/month!!
    This is for just me! No medical problems! No Rx meds! Highest out of pocket and highest copays!!
    i don't think enough people know this!! How can this government tell me what I have to have for health insurance!!?
    How do they have the right to fine me if I don't and how can they allow the ridiculously high premiums to be charged!!
    I'm so furious I could spit!! And still don't know what to do. I do know I can't afford the premium!!
    HELP!!