Forum Thread

Real Democracy Is Coming to the U.S.A.

Reply to Thread Displaying 11 Posts
  • Strongly Liberal
    Independent
    Seattle, WA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    "America is not a true Democratic Republic as Thomas Jefferson and James Madison envisioned. For example, its citizens do not receive public higher education, as Jefferson wanted, so public education is limited and inadequate. The news media does not fully inform the public or keep politicians honest, so the public is misled by commercial interests.

    Even worse, America does not promote the general welfare or ensure justice for all, because it does not have government that is of the people, by the people, or for the people. Instead, it has government that is of, by, and for the wealthiest few who perpetuate aristocratic traditions because they feel entitled to rule.

    Consequently, there is a partisan political battle dividing and polarizing Americans, and it is much like the partisan political battle that was waged between 1790 and 1800 by Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. It's really the same old basic argument between those who want their nation to be a Democratic Republic wherein all the people have equal opportunities, who are opposed by those who believe the wealthiest few are entitled to rule."

    (Those are the first three paragraphs of an article, Real Democracy Is Coming to the U.S.A.)
    .
  • Democrat
    Charlotte, NC
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: "America is not a true Democratic Republic as Thomas Jefferson and James Madison envisioned. For example, its citizens do not receive public higher education, as Jefferson wanted, so public education is limited and inadequate. The news media does not fully inform the public or keep politicians honest, so the public is misled by commercial interests.

    Even worse, America does not promote the general welfare or ensure justice for all, because it does not have government that is of the people, by the people, or for the people. Instead, it has government that is of, by, and for the wealthiest few who perpetuate aristocratic traditions because they feel entitled to rule.

    Consequently, there is a partisan political battle dividing and polarizing Americans, and it is much like the partisan political battle that was waged between 1790 and 1800 by Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. It's really the same old basic argument between those who want their nation to be a Democratic Republic wherein all the people have equal opportunities, who are opposed by those who believe the wealthiest few are entitled to rule."

    (Those are the first three paragraphs of an article, Real Democracy Is Coming to the U.S.A.)
    .
    Guy Dwyer Wrote: "America is not a true Democratic Republic as Thomas Jefferson and James Madison envisioned. For example, its citizens do not receive public higher education, as Jefferson wanted, so public education is limited and inadequate. The news media does not fully inform the public or keep politicians honest, so the public is misled by commercial interests.

    Even worse, America does not promote the general welfare or ensure justice for all, because it does not have government that is of the people, by the people, or for the people. Instead, it has government that is of, by, and for the wealthiest few who perpetuate aristocratic traditions because they feel entitled to rule.

    Consequently, there is a partisan political battle dividing and polarizing Americans, and it is much like the partisan political battle that was waged between 1790 and 1800 by Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. It's really the same old basic argument between those who want their nation to be a Democratic Republic wherein all the people have equal opportunities, who are opposed by those who believe the wealthiest few are entitled to rule."

    (Those are the first three paragraphs of an article, Real Democracy Is Coming to the U.S.A.)


    That was a good article Guy. Problem:There is no way the wealthy will ever wilingly give up their ussurped power and privilage...except by force. If Romney wins, and the Re-Pubs take control of congress (worst case scenerio)...the government will be more tyrannical than George the Third's by a factor of four or five.
    Nowhere in history can we find a single example of the priviliaged giving up their privilages, except at threat of their lives.It is as true now, as it was in 1776.
    No matter if we were somehow able to generate a national slate of write-in canidates...the powers that be would either find or invent a way to circumvent the wishes of the masses. And as the article points out...they already control the courts, the "last line of defense" for the people.
    We (we being ordinary working Americans,poor Americans,homeless Americans,etc) no longer have MEANINGFUL access to either the courts or congress.If you don't believe me, just get yourself screwed over by a company or individual of means...and see how long(or even if) you can actually get into court.The answer is years.And then if,and thats a big if, you manage to win...the rich simply use their $1000 an hour lawyers to appeal and stall.No justice for the poor exists now days.
    I don't need to point out the costs associated with REAL access to congress,do I? Didn't think so.
    There is no realistic way we can re-take our democracy with write in votes.They will be ignored.Much as our voices are ignored now. This is a pivitol election...as to the direction the country takes,this much we can all agree on. And if the wrong side wins and are able to impliment most of their agenda.....it's my belief( and a few others ) that before the next election, we will be at war with each other.Again.
    And for an historical perspective...that one cost us 500,000 dead. This time...add a zero,and multipily by 4. And the REALLY sad,sad thing about this,is that the people who have wrought this on us...don't give a damn.
    .
  • Strongly Liberal
    Independent
    Seattle, WA
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    gymrat22 Wrote: That was a good article Guy. Problem:There is no way the wealthy will ever wilingly give up their ussurped power and privilage...except by force. If Romney wins, and the Re-Pubs take control of congress (worst case scenerio)...the government will be more tyrannical than George the Third's by a factor of four or five.
    Nowhere in history can we find a single example of the priviliaged giving up their privilages, except at threat of their lives.It is as true now, as it was in 1776.
    No matter if we were somehow able to generate a national slate of write-in canidates...the powers that be would either find or invent a way to circumvent the wishes of the masses. And as the article points out...they already control the courts, the "last line of defense" for the people.
    We (we being ordinary working Americans,poor Americans,homeless Americans,etc) no longer have MEANINGFUL access to either the courts or congress.If you don't believe me, just get yourself screwed over by a company or individual of means...and see how long(or even if) you can actually get into court.The answer is years.And then if,and thats a big if, you manage to win...the rich simply use their $1000 an hour lawyers to appeal and stall.No justice for the poor exists now days.
    I don't need to point out the costs associated with REAL access to congress,do I? Didn't think so.
    There is no realistic way we can re-take our democracy with write in votes.They will be ignored.Much as our voices are ignored now. This is a pivitol election...as to the direction the country takes,this much we can all agree on. And if the wrong side wins and are able to impliment most of their agenda.....it's my belief( and a few others ) that before the next election, we will be at war with each other.Again.
    And for an historical perspective...that one cost us 500,000 dead. This time...add a zero,and multipily by 4. And the REALLY sad,sad thing about this,is that the people who have wrought this on us...don't give a damn.


    I understand why you feel that way, and why you believe that. But the fact is that there HAS been an example in American history that changed the economy from one that was horribly unfair and inequitable to one that was far more fair and equitable. Just consider how and why in 1929 the stock market crashed, the American economy collapsed, $140 Billion of depositor money disappeared and 10,000 banks failed, and America was plunged into the Great Depression. Millions of people were jobless, homeless, in poverty. And yet President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal established needed reforms and regulations and provided a safety net of Social Security, and gradually things changed. In fact, it wasn't long before America became the strongest, most powerful nation on earth, with a middle class that grew very large and great.

    Granted, you are right that partisan politics is not the solution. In fact, that's what the article on partisan politics says. The fact is that since McCarthyism and Nixon and Reagan came along, things have reverted and gone backward. Wealth has been redistributed to a wealthiest few at the expense of everyone else. Reaganism has done a lot of damage to the New Deal, and the Reaganites still want to destroy it completely. And they have become so cunningly devious that even when the people elected President Obama they managed to thwart his efforts with obstructionist tactics to maintain Reaganism -- still selling it as "religious and patriotic" while labeling Obama as a "Socialist" (just as they labeled Roosevelt).

    However, I disagree with you in that I believe we do not have to resort to force or violence to take our government back from them.

    The Coalition does not merely recommend the write-in vote. As it states in The 21st Century Declaration of Independence:

    "The write-in vote is not our only tool. The people can also take action either though a petition process to create citizen's initiatives and establish state ballot measures so that the people can officially register their demands. We can also voice our demands in peaceful public assembly in open parks and in other appropriate public spaces, obtaining permits if needed (and NOT wearing hoods). And ultimately, whether it's using the citizen's initiative process or the write-in ballot or public demonstration, we the people can persist until our demands are met to utilize the provisions in Article 5 of the Constitution to establish the kind of government we want and need.

    "You see, the Founding Fathers of the nation wrote Article 5 because they recognized the importance of providing this means by which we, the people, could initiate amendments to change and/or clarify and/or update the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land. Even in the earlier Declaration of Independence they declared that whenever any form of government does not serve their interests, it is the right and duty of the people to alter and reform it, or even institute new government
    ."

    We the people CAN do this in a peaceful way, legally. But what we need is leaders who are peacemakers who understand that our greatest "weapon" is truth, and that only truth will prevail over falsehoods and lies, only love will overcome hate, and only good will overcome evil. Two wrongs don't make a right. So we have to be smart, calm, and persistent in speaking truth to power without rancor or malice.

    It's not going to be easy. It's far easier to be tempted by anger and rage, and to act out. But that merely plays into the hands of the Reaganites who have made this country a police state with storm troopers to put down protest. We must learn the lessons of the 1960s, and we must learn the lessons from the failure of the "Occupy" movement. Now we must take the high road, the best road, and be wiser in the way we exercise our right to non-violent, peaceful protest and make our desires known in the best ways possible.
    .
  • Other Party
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    You got that right.The US us run by 1% of the population for the benefit of one percent of the population.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Every now and then someone new comes on this website like dippy and comments on a thread from the past...in this case 2012. I enjoyed reading again Guy Dwyer's posts...I agree with them. It passes the test of time. From Dwyer's original post:

    "Consequently, there is a partisan political battle dividing and polarizing Americans, and it is much like the partisan political battle that was waged between 1790 and 1800 by Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. It's really the same old basic argument between those who want their nation to be a Democratic Republic wherein all the people have equal opportunities, who are opposed by those who believe the wealthiest few are entitled to rule.""
  • Democrat
    Charlotte, NC
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote: Every now and then someone new comes on this website like dippy and comments on a thread from the past...in this case 2012. I enjoyed reading again Guy Dwyer's posts...I agree with them. It passes the test of time. From Dwyer's original post:

    "Consequently, there is a partisan political battle dividing and polarizing Americans, and it is much like the partisan political battle that was waged between 1790 and 1800 by Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. It's really the same old basic argument between those who want their nation to be a Democratic Republic wherein all the people have equal opportunities, who are opposed by those who believe the wealthiest few are entitled to rule.""
    Hello Schmidt...long time,no "see"! From what Dwyer wrote in 2012 as we approached the run-up to the elections...sadly still holds true today. One would think that the whuppin the Re-Pubs took would at least engender a bit of relaxing,vis-a-vie: their wholehearted pursuit of a 1% government. Or failing that, at least giving lip service to a more inclusive one. Sadly...no.
    I'm not a history major,so I'm not sure on this one.....maybe it is that their has ALWAYS been deep,abiding partisan divides,dividing us.And yet,we have not only survived,but prospered!
    How do we fix this. Don't Know. No idea.Maybe a place to start would be with ourselves. Maybe. Might work. Maybe we should start trying(and failing,and trying again,etc)to be inclusive ourselves. Thats a novel idea.
    Wait, all of you say. WE ARE the inclusive side,right??? Sure,as long as the conversation is to OUR liking (much like the bright red churches in Mississippi do). Lets try to pitch a tent where EVERYBODY is REALLY welcome! Novel concept, I'll admit. But think for just one moment what THAT would look like, and exactly how powerful it would be for us to be able to roll out a machine where everybody except the elite ones, feels equally welcome.And much more important...feels equally empowered and equally allowed to cotribute to the progressive movement.Even the of us spelling challenged ones among us.
    Impossible,you say. Wrong,I say. If any group is even capable of this...its us. And the future of this country demands that we try to return to being a "stew", not a "salad". Stews prosper.Salads split into several different countries.
    Just something to think about....as you watch the ending of another GREAT C.W.S. See ya!
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    gymrat --

    Welcome back. Actually I've been away as well up in Alaska so haven't had time for politics.

    But getting back to your point. Didn't President Obama try to practice inclusiveness in his first year in office? He really believed in his "red state - blue state" rhetoric from his 2004 Democratic Convention Keynote speech. And while he was putting out olive branches to Republicans from the day he took office, they were in fact meeting in secret on how they could sabotage his presidency.

    Huffington Post, April 26, 2012: Robert Draper Book: GOP's Anti-Obama Campaign Started Night Of Inauguration

    "WASHINGTON -- As President Barack Obama was celebrating his inauguration at various balls, top Republican lawmakers and strategists were conjuring up ways to submarine his presidency at a private dinner in Washington."

    The mistake that President Obama made is that he sincerely thought that Republicans would put country ahead of politics, but he misjudged their lust for power and their hatred and vitriol towards him..."not one of us." Born in Kenya...secret Muslim...a dictator, hates America...the anti-Christ...and blah, blah, blah...for the next five years...Fox News propaganda to the ignorant.

    Sadly, though so many Americans have bought into that hate propaganda, and some are calling for his impeachment...while Boehner is planning to sue him.

    It just drives me nuts...but it has happened before in our history, again and again.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote: gymrat --

    Welcome back. Actually I've been away as well up in Alaska so haven't had time for politics.

    But getting back to your point. Didn't President Obama try to practice inclusiveness in his first year in office? He really believed in his "red state - blue state" rhetoric from his 2004 Democratic Convention Keynote speech. And while he was putting out olive branches to Republicans from the day he took office, they were in fact meeting in secret on how they could sabotage his presidency.

    Huffington Post, April 26, 2012: Robert Draper Book: GOP's Anti-Obama Campaign Started Night Of Inauguration

    "WASHINGTON -- As President Barack Obama was celebrating his inauguration at various balls, top Republican lawmakers and strategists were conjuring up ways to submarine his presidency at a private dinner in Washington."

    The mistake that President Obama made is that he sincerely thought that Republicans would put country ahead of politics, but he misjudged their lust for power and their hatred and vitriol towards him..."not one of us." Born in Kenya...secret Muslim...a dictator, hates America...the anti-Christ...and blah, blah, blah...for the next five years...Fox News propaganda to the ignorant.

    Sadly, though so many Americans have bought into that hate propaganda, and some are calling for his impeachment...while Boehner is planning to sue him.

    It just drives me nuts...but it has happened before in our history, again and again.
    "Schmidt" I'm not a bit surprised; this is a total disfunctional government; even the "justices" are out of touch. The only thing what works seems to be our "warlords" system; "Charly" you want "protection" we will sent some drones!!; plenty of those available; no discussion needed; we've got plenty of generals who do not need permission they always get it their way anyway. So because it is a mess in Washington the "army" runs away with the "cookie jar", because Obama is way too busy fending of Boehner and others. Also the "arrogant" Vietnam Veteran Kerry gets "free" reign into foreign policies and thinks he is the president with his nose up in the air. I'm glad they have no money for infrastructure; because its oversight will be a disaster.
  • Democrat
    Hot Springs Village, AR
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    It's 2 years later now. The 2016 election is 40 some days away. Are we any closer?

    16 years of Reagan and Bush the Lesser have really pushed the country farther away. It will take a revolution.

    huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/f...

    Where do we sign up?

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Combad This thread was started nearly 4 years ago. If you had related info replying would be fine. Feel free to start a new thread on any topic that you like.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    *snip, did not mean to necro.