Democratic Hub
About Us
Tour
FAQ
Signup
Login
  
Home
Forums
Pages
Issues
Laws
Elections
Arguments
Events
Government
U.S.
World
Welcome to our New Political Community - Take a Quick Tour of our Features including our Discussion Forums custom designed for U.S. politics. SIGN UP today to join in the discussion.
Forums > All Posts > Mitt Romney: The Mormon Bishop and High Priest
  • Forums
  • Categories
  • All Posts
  • Forum Rules
  • FAQ\Help
Displaying 1 - 15 out of 17 Forum Posts1 2 Next

You must be logged in to reply to a post.
01-16-2012, 06:41 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
"As governor, I tried to do the right as best I knew it, serving the law and answering to the Constitution. I did not confuse the particular teachings of my church with the obligations of the office and of the Constitution - and of course, I would not do so as president. I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law." -- Mitt Romney, December 6, 2007, Faith in America Speech

Despite Mitt Romney's words, many Christian evangelicals fear Mitt Romney's Mormonism. On the other hand, many of us non-religious folks fear the influence of any faith based ideology on the population as a whole if we elect a strong faith based President, whether it be Mormon, Evangelical, or Catholic. So where exactly does Mitt Romney fit in?

The Christian Science Monitor reported in 2007 that Mitt Romney has been extremely active within the Mormon church serving three years (1982 - 1985) as a Bishop at his Belmont, Mass church and then nine years as "stake" president, overseeing about a dozen Boston-area parishes.

According to Mormon hierarchy, only high priests can serve as stake presidents, so Romney held (holds?) the title of "high priest" as well...or more accurately Melchizedek priesthood.

According to the Wikipedia link: "In Mormonism, unlike most other Christian denominations, the Melchizedek priesthood is thought to be held by unextraordinary mortals and not solely by either pre-Aaronic priests such as Melchizedek, or Jesus alone, as most Christians interpret the Epistle to the Hebrews. According to Joseph Smith, Jr., the name of this priesthood became Melchizedek "because Melchizedek was such a great high priest" and "to avoid the too frequent repetition" of the "name of the Supreme Being"."

The Los Angeles Times reports that "no previous president or serious candidate can rival Romney for the time and energy spent in running a religious organization and ministering to its members. Over the course of two decades, Romney served as spiritual and administrative leader for a Boston-area church and then as the head of a dozen Mormon churches. The work often took up 30 hours a week of his time, or more. Had he not entered politics, Romney — a sixth-generation member of the Mormon Church whose ancestors were among the earliest members of the faith — might have put himself on a path to be chosen for the church's governing body in Salt Lake City, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles."

In looking at a 2009 Pew Forum Poll entitled A Portrait of Mormons in the US, one finds degrees of commitment by Mormons to their church on issues of the day. While 65 percent of Mormons are Republicans or lean Republican, only 22 percent are Democrat or lean to the Democratic Party. However, that survey is based on ordinary Mormons, some of which may not be so solidly behind the church's doctrine. But a high priest like Mitt Romney would have to have absolute commitment to the Mormon church.

The Huffington Post reports on how Mitt Romney then a Mormon Bishop pressured a single Mormon mother to give up her baby or be ex-communicated from the Mormon church: "Give up your son or give up your God."

You can read the entire Huffington Post article at the link. I won't go into the details here.

So we have to ask ourselves: Would High Priest Mitt Romney actually be able to divorce the matters of state from that of his church? Should we take him at his word that he would "put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office?"

I'll leave the readers of this website to decide that. Comments invited.



01-18-2012, 07:36 PM

Mort
Not Selected
Posts: 2
FYI -Mormons have no paid ministry. As a Bishop or Stake President, Romney would not have been paid. I fact, he would be required to donate 10% of his income plus donate to the poor. No small amount in his case. Also, one does not decide he wants to be a Bishop and then ask to serve in that position. One is called by higher authorities and then can decide whether or not to accept the call.
01-18-2012, 11:20 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
Thank you Mort. Yes I know that Mitt Romney wasn't paid for his services and I also know that Mormons donate 10 percent of their income to the church. That's commendable. My intention was not to disparage Mormonism in any way. I respect everyone's faith. However, I believe in the separation of church and state, and because Mitt Romney has "flip flopped" on so many issues in the past, he does have a credibility problem. So despite his statement from 2007 I do wonder if he can really separate his church and state functions.
01-20-2012, 03:06 PM

kiwichic
Not Selected
Posts: 1
Despite what u say, I believe your intention was as clear as clear can ever be, and it wasn't to show any respect for Romney or his faith. What's up with so many Americans? I am an outsider looking in, and can't for the life of me figure out how, on the one hand, so many of you say religion doesn't matter (especially when it has to do with every other religion but the religion of Mormons), and the next minute, it's like 'we can never trust someone who's mormon?' All the excuses in the world viz flip flopping, taxes, pro-life, etc etc doesn't come close to why people do not like Romney. If they were honest with themselves, the ONLY REASON is because he is a Mormon. Period. As I see it, so many of your citizens would prefer to ignore all the qualities and credentials that Romney appears to have to surely turn your shocking economy around, rather than accept this clearly intelligent and very successful mind, simply and solely because he is Mormon. It's hard to fathom how you guys think. Btw, check out the following link, and be more informed. http://mittromneycentral.com/2012/01/20/timothy-dalrymple-open-letter-to-mitt-r... It was also refreshing to listen to Chris Christie on FoxNews Hannity yesterday speaking about Mitt Romney and his absolute goodness and passion, contrary to what many who do not know him spout about. These are just my feelings. Correct me if I am way off center. Cheers! Oh ... and if I were in South Carolina, I would definitely be voting for Mitt Romney.
01-21-2012, 07:28 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
kiwichic,

Are you Australian? If you have been following politics closely in the USA you'll know that the Republican Party is heavy into religious doctrine, in particular the issues of abortion and gay rights. Americans elected many Tea Party Republicans in 2010 on the basis of "job creation" but once in office they haven't cared at all about promoting jobs legislation. In fact it's been just the opposite...they have worked to oppose and obstruct all of Obama's jobs initiatives.

On the other hand, the newly elected House Republicans have vigorously pursued their "church agenda" depriving Planned Parenthood of funds ostensibly because of the abortion issue, but Planned Parenthood by law receives no federal funds for abortion. The House Republicans also have an anti-gay marriage agenda linked to their Christian doctrine.

In 2008 the Mormon church and their practitioners spent some $8 million (some later estimates have put the number at $22 million) in California in support of Proposition 8 that outlaws gay marriage in California. A federal district judge has since found that law unconstitutional. But there is no denying the Mormon church's active political and monetary role to support Proposition 8.

See articles by the LA Times and the Huffington Post from 2008 that describes the very active campaign by the Mormon church against gay marriage.

I won't go into all the details of the articles, but I provide them for your information. The bigger question in my mind though concerns what a "President Romney" would do. This is one of the questions that I would ask of him in a debate:

Governor Romney, you have said in 2007 that you would "put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law." But given the Mormon church's well publicized stance against gay marriage and your status as a stake president and high priest in the church, would you be using the power of the Presidency to pursue the Mormon church's campaign to outlaw gay marriage much as they did in California in support of Proposition 8?

Given Mitt Romney's well publicized flip flops on issues, what he said on this issue in the past is not relevant today. Today as a part of his campaign he has said he is against gay marriage...as per the Mormon church doctrine. What I want to know is just how actively he would use his powers as President to pursue that doctrine.

01-31-2012, 11:29 PM

Noname
Not Selected
Posts: 2
When you're looking for the best presidential candidate is whether or not they approve of gay marriage really that important to you. I could care less what a gay person does get married whatever. But I'm not gonna judge a candidate according to their views on gay marriage. I think we have much more important issues at stake. Romney has proven that he is very capable of creating jobs and balancing budgets. I highly doubt that he would step into office and make his goal to wage war against gay people. I think he would be more concerned with job creation, health insurance, international relations, military strength and so on...
05-11-2012, 09:31 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
fenway suggested that we start another thread on Mitt Romney's gay views and religion.  Since we already had one going that had been dormant, I'll pick the topic up again and ask the question:

Is Mitt Romney's anti-gay political stand a product of his deep Mormon faith beliefs? I think so but am willing to listen to other views. I believe that Mitt Romney's Mormon faith guides his life in every respect, and that can be certainly be a positive for him if he were to open up more on his faith.

However, he also realizes that it can be viewed negatively, especially if he is seen supporting Proposition 8 in California because of his adherence to Mormon doctrine.

Beyond the issue of gay marriage, will other aspects of High Priest Mitt Romney's views on society as a "President Romney" be a direct reflection of his Mormon faith.

I know that many will criticize me for even bringing this up...what does this have to do with jobs?  But the reality is the Republican Party is largely theocratic right now driven by a power game between Christian evangelicals, Catholic bishops and Mormons on the religious side and the plutocrats on the greed side. Mitt Romney lives on both sides.

House Republicans spend more time on religious based issues than jobs.
05-11-2012, 09:55 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
One more soundbite:

What is it that drives a wealthy, deeply religious man like Mitt Romney to seek the Presidency? Is it his adherence to his theocracy or to his plutocracy?
05-11-2012, 11:13 AM
Square Main Photo
alias
Newman Lake, WA

Account Frozen

Posts: 114
Schmidt Wrote: One more soundbite:

What is it that drives a wealthy, deeply religious man like Mitt Romney to seek the Presidency? Is it his adherence to his theocracy or to his plutocracy?

It's fun to watch Americans who will defend American muslims and their constitutional rights in this country turn right around and deny the same defense to a fellow American.  Hypocrites.
05-11-2012, 12:48 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
Alias -- Muslims are not trying to take over our government and make it into a theocratic state as the religious right on their crusade is doing. I respect all religions equally, but if they cross the line and seek to impose their religious beliefs onto our government I will oppose and condemn them at every opportunity. There is no hypocrisy involved.

The real hypocrites are members of our Congress that pretend to be "Christian like" but then seek to take away benefits and rights from the poor, sick, elderly and women while supporting their rich benefactors.

Cantor, Ryan, Boehner, and all the Tea Partiers that wear the religion on their sleeves are all hypocrites.
05-11-2012, 01:00 PM
Square Main Photo
alias
Newman Lake, WA

Account Frozen

Posts: 114
Schmidt Wrote: Alias -- Muslims are not trying to take over our government and make it into a theocratic state as the religious right on their crusade is doing. I respect all religions equally, but if they cross the line and seek to impose their religious beliefs onto our government I will oppose and condemn them at every opportunity. There is no hypocrisy involved.

The real hypocrites are members of our Congress that pretend to be "Christian like" but then seek to take away benefits and rights from the poor, sick, elderly and women while supporting their rich benefactors.

Cantor, Ryan, Boehner, and all the Tea Partiers that wear the religion on their sleeves are all hypocrites.

I don't buy your premise.  Let's see your evidence Mormons are trying to take over the USA and establish a theocracy.
05-11-2012, 02:51 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
Alias -- maybe you should reread more carefully what I wrote.

05-11-2012, 03:34 PM
Square Main Photo
alias
Newman Lake, WA

Account Frozen

Posts: 114
Schmidt Wrote: Alias -- maybe you should reread more carefully what I wrote.


I did.

How many Mormon terrorist attacks have happened on this planet compared to muslim terrorist attacks in the last 20 years?  Can you also give us a body count?
05-11-2012, 05:48 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
The Saudi Muslims that attacked us 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with them wanting to take over our country.  That kind of fear is one of the products of the Islamophobia being spread by right wing media and politicians seeking to capitalize on a tragic situation.

Osama bin Laden released several tapes after the 9/11 bombing, and none of them pointed toward a take-over of the US government.  Rather he saw the attack as retribution for the US acts of aggression against Muslims and our support for Israel. A transcript of just one of those tapes is provided here. I won't paraphrase or repeat bin Laden's hate filled words. You can read them.

Fear mongering by the right is nothing new.  The John Birch Society thrived on their anti-communist crusade in the middle of the last century...and they're back at it working with the Tea Party on a hate campaign against Muslims.

But getting back to your point.  The exact words that I used were: "Muslims are not trying to take over our government and make it into a theocratic state as the religious right on their crusade is doing. I respect all religions equally, but if they cross the line and seek to impose their religious beliefs onto our government I will oppose and condemn them at every opportunity. There is no hypocrisy involved."

I think there is plenty of evidence of the religious right's plans to remake America into a Christian nation. But first for better understanding I have selected an article from 2005, by Frederick Clarkson writing for the Public Eye entitled, Remaking America as a Christian Nation. Clarkson quoted Political Research Associates Senior Analyst, Chip Berlet on his distinction between hard and soft dominionists, noting that the terms  are used by outside observers to understand a complex trend. In labelling a conservative politician, organization, or religious leader as "dominionist," he cited three characteristics that bridge both the hard and the soft kind:

Dominionists celebrate Christian nationalism, in that they believe that the United States once was, and should once again be, a Christian nation. In this way, they deny the Enlightenment roots of American democracy.

Dominionists promote religious supremacy, insofar as they generally do not respect the equality of other religions, or even other versions of Christianity.

Dominionists endorse theocratic visions, insofar as they believe that the Ten Commandments, or "biblical law," should be the foundation of American law, and that the U.S. Constitution should be seen as a vehicle for implementing Biblical principles.

Pieces of dominionism spill out in the day-to-day words and activities of our nation's leaders all the time. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) routinely hosts tours of the Capitol for constituents, Congress members and their staffs by Christian nationalist propagandist David Barton. President George W. Bush claimed during one of his presidential campaign debates with John Kerry that the United States was founded as a Christian nation. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay has said the United States should be governed under Biblical law.


Okay, that article was written in 2005, and I chose it because of the three characteristics that are evident today in many of our Republican Congressional leaders. At the 2011 Rediscover God in America conference attended by most of the Republican Presidential candidates, David Barton was again center stage. From Chris Rodda of the Huffington Post:

"At the Rediscover God in America conference that we learned that all of our economic policies should be based on the Bible. And who did we learn this from? None other than Christian nationalist pseudo-historian David Barton, who kicked off the conference with a lengthy presentation of his usual historical hogwash. Then, one by one, as the potential Republican presidential candidates took the podium to let the audience full of pastors know just how Christian they are, each began by gushing about what a great historian and good friend David Barton is.

"But the most outrageous statement by far came from Mike Huckabee, who expressed his admiration for Barton by saying that he "almost wished" that "all Americans would be forced -- forced at gunpoint no less -- to listen to every David Barton message."


As Republicans seek to defund Planned Parenthood, oppose contraception, push "life begins at conception" amendments in states like Colorado, oppose a woman's right to chose, abuse women with ridiculous legislation like mandated ultrasounds, seek to deny the gay community their rights to civil unions and/or marriage, push for home schooling to promote their religious teachings, oppose immigration to maintain racial purity, and more...all of these are consistent with their vision of a "Christian nation"...a nation where Biblical law trumps the Constitution.

Mitt Romney has not engaged as much as the other candidates in this Christian talk, but his views are aligned with the other candidates on the issues above. In that respect there is little difference between the evangelicals and the Mormons. Mitt Romney will be preaching at Liberty University this week. Watch what he says.  

05-12-2012, 10:33 AM
Square Main Photo
alias
Newman Lake, WA

Account Frozen

Posts: 114
Schmidt Wrote: The Saudi Muslims that attacked us 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with them wanting to take over our country.  That kind of fear is one of the products of the Islamophobia being spread by right wing media and politicians seeking to capitalize on a tragic situation.

Osama bin Laden released several tapes after the 9/11 bombing, and none of them pointed toward a take-over of the US government.  Rather he saw the attack as retribution for the US acts of aggression against Muslims and our support for Israel. A transcript of just one of those tapes is provided here. I won't paraphrase or repeat bin Laden's hate filled words. You can read them.

Fear mongering by the right is nothing new.  The John Birch Society thrived on their anti-communist crusade in the middle of the last century...and they're back at it working with the Tea Party on a hate campaign against Muslims.

But getting back to your point.  The exact words that I used were: "Muslims are not trying to take over our government and make it into a theocratic state as the religious right on their crusade is doing. I respect all religions equally, but if they cross the line and seek to impose their religious beliefs onto our government I will oppose and condemn them at every opportunity. There is no hypocrisy involved."

I think there is plenty of evidence of the religious right's plans to remake America into a Christian nation. But first for better understanding I have selected an article from 2005, by Frederick Clarkson writing for the Public Eye entitled, Remaking America as a Christian Nation. Clarkson quoted Political Research Associates Senior Analyst, Chip Berlet on his distinction between hard and soft dominionists, noting that the terms  are used by outside observers to understand a complex trend. In labelling a conservative politician, organization, or religious leader as "dominionist," he cited three characteristics that bridge both the hard and the soft kind:

Dominionists celebrate Christian nationalism, in that they believe that the United States once was, and should once again be, a Christian nation. In this way, they deny the Enlightenment roots of American democracy.

Dominionists promote religious supremacy, insofar as they generally do not respect the equality of other religions, or even other versions of Christianity.

Dominionists endorse theocratic visions, insofar as they believe that the Ten Commandments, or "biblical law," should be the foundation of American law, and that the U.S. Constitution should be seen as a vehicle for implementing Biblical principles.

Pieces of dominionism spill out in the day-to-day words and activities of our nation's leaders all the time. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) routinely hosts tours of the Capitol for constituents, Congress members and their staffs by Christian nationalist propagandist David Barton. President George W. Bush claimed during one of his presidential campaign debates with John Kerry that the United States was founded as a Christian nation. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay has said the United States should be governed under Biblical law.


Okay, that article was written in 2005, and I chose it because of the three characteristics that are evident today in many of our Republican Congressional leaders. At the 2011 Rediscover God in America conference attended by most of the Republican Presidential candidates, David Barton was again center stage. From Chris Rodda of the Huffington Post:

"At the Rediscover God in America conference that we learned that all of our economic policies should be based on the Bible. And who did we learn this from? None other than Christian nationalist pseudo-historian David Barton, who kicked off the conference with a lengthy presentation of his usual historical hogwash. Then, one by one, as the potential Republican presidential candidates took the podium to let the audience full of pastors know just how Christian they are, each began by gushing about what a great historian and good friend David Barton is.

"But the most outrageous statement by far came from Mike Huckabee, who expressed his admiration for Barton by saying that he "almost wished" that "all Americans would be forced -- forced at gunpoint no less -- to listen to every David Barton message."


As Republicans seek to defund Planned Parenthood, oppose contraception, push "life begins at conception" amendments in states like Colorado, oppose a woman's right to chose, abuse women with ridiculous legislation like mandated ultrasounds, seek to deny the gay community their rights to civil unions and/or marriage, push for home schooling to promote their religious teachings, oppose immigration to maintain racial purity, and more...all of these are consistent with their vision of a "Christian nation"...a nation where Biblical law trumps the Constitution.

Mitt Romney has not engaged as much as the other candidates in this Christian talk, but his views are aligned with the other candidates on the issues above. In that respect there is little difference between the evangelicals and the Mormons. Mitt Romney will be preaching at Liberty University this week. Watch what he says.  


I notice you mention "fear mongering".  Case closed.  Thanks.
You must be logged in to reply to a post.


 
About Us
Contact Us
FAQ
Advertise
Links
Login
Sign Up
  


� Copyright 2009-2012 Democratic Hub. All Rights Reserved.
Terms & Conditions | Privacy Policy


OBAMA ACCOMPLISHMENTS - REPUBLICAN DIVORCES - REPUBLICAN INFIDELITY & AFFAIRS - REPUBLICAN SCANDALS & CONTROVERSIES