Thoughts on Occupy Wall Street/America

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Forums > All Posts > Thoughts on Occupy Wall Street/America

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10-05-2011, 01:28 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

From a FB post I made in a discussion w/ a conservative friend.

God Bless our service men and women. A call has gone out to retired military to descend on Wall Street to protect the protesters from the cops. One small group is on the way, hope others follow. Even Tea Party people are uniting with liberals/progressives on some of the goals expressed by Occupy Wall Street. Whether you prefer an expressly "federal" or "Republican" government, or more democracy .....neither vision can succeed in the present kleptocracy. The left-right should be one fighting the criminal corporate power in the center. That's the true spirit of 1776! God Save the Republic! Campaign Finance Reform Now! Corporate Tax Reform Now!

...................
Look...some of these people have been battling the elements, hunger, and the police for weeks now.....they're bound to talk crazy. Even still, I do think that many are misguided in a variety of respects (the entire country is misguided). But while they may not quite understand everything that's happening in America or have the answers to the problems that they see....this is all we have of a political process that speaks/acts for the American people anymore. They don't resemble most of us, but there is a purity of heart and spirit that flows through these people that is truly American...they want a government where corruption is not suspect throughout the system, and a system of economic fair-play where the meek are not sheep to the slaughter. Now, I know we might have differences with them on a variety of things, but there's ample space to make common cause. Indeed, there are Conservative elements in the Occupier crowd: we've seen crunchy cons, Ron Paul people, and social-liberal/fiscal-cons. The great irony for the small government people who have stood on the sidelines..... is this is a response to the Capture of D.C. by Wall Street...a point that echoes back to the anti-federalists ... the small government tradition at its core is still a democratic one. The remarkable ability of the Occupier community to assemble livable conditions for themselves and those that join them...says a lot about who they are as a people. The academic libertarian-socialist/council communist elements of the Occupiers organization is simply Americans acting out there right to self-government as a peaceful/non-violent militia. They have not taken to rioting....they have clashed with police/they have made mistakes..but they are there to seek change in the only way they have left with a corrupt government that's paralyzed to act on their behalf.
......................

AMERICANS UNITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saul Williams + NIN, "List of Demands".

10-05-2011, 01:33 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

I actually have spoken to some far-right Oathkeepers who are headed to NY to, in their words, "defend the Hippies."

This is truly an American movement......Conservatives + Libertarians + Liberals UNITE! Restore Virtue NOW! Campaign Finance Reform NOW! Corporate Tax Reform NOW!

NIN: "The Line Begins to Blur."

Rally around the FLAG!

10-05-2011, 05:16 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

The Last Republican Left Buddy Roemer stands with the Occupiers!
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/10/05/buddy_roemer_to_occupy_wall_street_i_stand_by_you_.html

Roemer's message to Occupiers:
"As I continue touring college campuses throughout New Hampshire, I am reminded of all the young Americans currently taking part in the Occupy Wall Street movement. Please know that I stand by you.

It is Main Street that creates the majority of jobs in America; it is Main Street that sends our brave young men and women to war; it is Main Street that hurts when another manufacturing plant closes only to be re-opened in China; it is Main Street that is being foreclosed on; and it is Main Street that is suffering while the greed of Wall Street continues to hurt our middle-class.

Too-big-to-fail banks have only gotten bigger thanks to government bailouts, and as president, I will end the corporate tax loopholes that un-American corporations take advantage of only to ship our jobs overseas. Fair trade not Free trade.

Money in politics has created institutional corruption. Both parties are guilty of taking the big check and are bought by Wall Street. My campaign is the only one that speaks out against this and I look forward to the day lobbyists are not allowed to donate to campaigns.

Wall Street grew to be a source of capital for growing companies. It has become something else: A facilitator for greed and for the selling of American jobs. Enough already."

10-05-2011, 06:52 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

Can you believe this:

The Occupiers are producing their own newspaper: The Occupied Wall Street Journal.

They have established coordinated legal and medical teams.

They have procured food, water, & shelter.

They have managed to keep Zuccotti park free of debris and human waste.

They have established a "public" treasury of sorts.

They have established libraries.

They have established classrooms for training in non-violence and civil disobedience.

Hundreds now meet daily in the NY General Assembly.....an open consultative & deliberative democratic forum.

Obviously, they have managed to establish a massive digital communications base, and the "mic check" human bullhorn has made it possible for groups to communicate as they coalesce and march in mass.

This is one hell of a sophisticated non-hierarchical human organization.
It is not a mob. It is a non-violent People's militia: The ALLIED AMERICAN WALL STREET OCCUPATION FORCE. At the last, it is truly beautiful.

What they have achieved thus far is truly remarkable and a testament to the monument to the human race that this nation can/could be.

Who would have thought all this could be done in a matter of weeks?
................

The one fear I do have is 1968.

It seems naive to believe that the black bloc won't make an appearance. I am simply consumed by this fear. I realize that the Occupiers are a peaceful/non-violent protesters but they should be prepared to physically restrain any group or individual that encourages or commits acts of violence in their midst.
It would appear the Occupiers may need to establish a Sheriff's office and be prepared to use force against those whose violent actions would encourage/provide justification for the police and authorities to do their worst.

10-06-2011, 11:12 AM

cubfan 1937
San Diego, CA
Posts: 1

As a new member, I wish to declare my strong approval of the demonstrations in NYC, and across the nation. It is obviuous that this spontaneous outpouring of concern regarding the direction of the nation needs a few things to be effectinve. An issure about which to coalesce is more essential than a leader. I believe Dylan Ratigan's movement for a Constitutional Amendment to quash the special intersts' control of the electoral process with funds it receives from the general population is a likely issue. Ratigan's amendment lacks an essential part. Any amendment to accomplish the return of the patronage to those who are actually paying for it must include a method for bribing te Congress to enact it. This must include compensation comparable to or exceeding what these legislators could receive in the private sector. Further it must also include retirement benefits sufficient to preclude them from needing to become lobbyists.
A far as a leader is concerned, My current suggestion is Keith Olbermann. He is taller, funnier and better looking than Dylan Ratigan.
Give it a thought,
cubfan1937

10-06-2011, 07:04 PM

P-2
Three Rivers, MI
Posts: 12

This is really the hottest issue now. People are in the streets because they have basic needs that are not being met by the governement. We should be supporting the protesters in all of the locations that they exist, and extend this effort to protesting the Federal Reserve and Washington DC.

What is really a dismay is that fact that explicit information regarding the protests is being kept off of the media and is being censored in internet email. I can vouch that I have not been able to send news information to others regarding the demonstrations on ABC-owned Yahoo... and that's scary.

10-06-2011, 09:50 PM

thankfulforall
Durham, NC
Posts: 4

I totally support this American movement. Are you fed up with Corporate greed? Do you want justice? I do. But I can sit back at all this as a nurse, and realize that this change is not going to happen over night, and with just one President. I have done enough reading and watched enough TV to really sit down to make my vote in 2012 heard. The closest people that will accomplish this is the Democratic Party. In 2009 when our President took office it was going downhill. The big banks had to be bailed out, because Geithner let Lehman Brothers go into bankruptcy, It was a total disaster, and a major job bleeder. It set off the financial crisis. He then bailed out the rest of the banks to avoid our country in a tailspin...or a crash. People didn't like the bailout which was mainly railed by the Republican Party even though it was done so by a Republican President. Yes, it was their own mess, but they couldn't fail. Obama realized this as being a like a Dr. who didn't care about politics, but our country. He didn't even go for a complete change at the helm since it was so crucial. Our stock market was tanking at 6000. We HAD NO CHOICE but to bailout big banks. Dodd-Frank Act was a start, but more needs to control the people that don't want any regulations. Obama set forth the Stimulus Bill that did help a LOT. There are people who lost a lot of money in their 401ks, because Wall Street was tanking. We were on the verge of a financial collapse. Hello Great Depression. With that money..especially with the support for the car industry we eventually climbed back to to financial health. How do I know this? Hello....before the blooming idiots decided to rail with the debt ceiling outbursts we had hit 13,000. Now, we're down to 10,000. Their negativity about taxes is going to kill this country. They are in total support of corporate greed, and no regulations. Because our country was so sick, Obma appeased them enough to gain centrisity. But now, he realizes that we are more about what we perceive about this economy. It's a good possibility that the Republican Party along with the Tea Party activitists who are far right, actually are staging this doom and gloom to get what they want...and that includes corporate greed. We are being held hostage with their demands to get everything they want. I can't let that happen. The Health Care Bill is not a bad bill, for it is benefiting those who cannot get insurance, because they're sick. Plus, technology is going to help hold down the costs. Reform is going to hold down the costs. The Republicans are the ones who are really lying through their teeth about this bill. Before this was even in the works our Premiums were going up every year a lot. Less and less was given to us, because our insurance is an insurance for profit. That is a bad thing. Obama wanted the best for us, and yes, we may pay a little more in the beginning, but with some tweaking we can really make this work for the good, getting all people insured especially young people who are in college, and first starting out. Also, small businesses won't have to worry about getting insurance. Eventually the costs will go down. We should have the best we can get, and have it equally. If we want to be a great nation again, a little socialism isn;t a bad thing. We have enough freedom in the states. But to have true equality we have to have a certain amount of socialism. It's called love and sharing. But then we also have to be frugal to a certain extent also. If enough of us bind together, and start programs that work, be smart, and love each other with giving...we'll be a great nation again.

10-07-2011, 01:36 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

Spent Thursday with Occupy Dallas. Spent night at JFK memorial. Restore Virtue Now! Campaign Finance Reform Now! Corporate Tax Reform Now!

http://occupydallas.org/

10-07-2011, 08:40 PM

sbfriedman
Denton, TX
Posts: 931

Sorry. Didn't realize this post has here. Created a similar one, asking if you see a similarity between this movement and the Tea Party.

'Occupy Wall Street' does seem to be the liberals' version of The Tea Party movement. At least, at first glance. Although, I guess it depends on where you fall on the issues. And, even then, the Tea Partiers are impossibly incoherent and impossible to please. They're beyond conservative and all overrun by idiotic contradictions.

This movement, while lacking a clear singular message, seems different. At least for now. Granted, I haven't done a ton of research on it, but it seems as though their one message could be, "Wall Street and Big Business are destroying America!" And, with that, I would have to agree.

But, just to be clear, I think that government funding, corp loopholes, lobbying strangleholds and bailouts are equally to blame. If the government was out of the private sector, there wouldn't be 'too big too fail' any longer. It's not a black and white issue, but government involvement does seem to be making the issue worse.

Let me know if I'm off base here. But, what if government funding, corporate loopholes and bailouts were done away with, or at the very least seriously restructured and very limited? That would leave a private sector market largely on their own when it came to funding. It would stop corporations like GE from not paying taxes. Hell, they got a tax break last year, in the millions! It would make the 'class war' more reasonable. It wouldn't be Corporate America and corrupt government against the middle and lower class. It would be government governing the nation, Corporations trying to appeal to the market, and the majority (average citizens) dictating where to spend their money. A economy, run by the people. If you go out of business...sorry. The people have spoken. Make a better product. Have a more sound business plan. Try again.

This would empower the uprising public. Everyone is absolutely pissed. Their anger could be used, not just vented. The middle and lower class make up, what, 97% of the nation? C'mon guys! That's the market. We can and should control the economy. Hell, we ARE the economy. What we buy, sell and trade is the damn economy. Or, at least it is SUPPOSED to be. I believe that's our #1 problem right now. We rely too much on other people, whether it be a large corporation or a parenting government, to fix the problem or take care of the issue. We have true power. We are a sleeping giant. And, if we ever just simply realize this, the powers that be will no longer exist! We do need to unite. I am totally for this protest. Although, anyone reading this, while I'm sure you agree with the protest, I'm also fairly certain it's for entirely different reasons. :) Oh well, I am for the majority ruling the nation. Not the top tier controlling the masses.

10-08-2011, 03:25 AM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

Yeah, I don't think you can just neatly call the Occupier movement a "liberal" Tea Party.

This is not about Big vs. Small Government.....this movement is about RESTORING VIRTUE in the political class.

Main issue is money in politics.

This is seen as the root source of a lot of other problems.

There's ample room for debate about the role of government. But debate is just debate; regardless of your theory of government, nothing can be accomplished without the blessing of corporate power.

I refuse to accept this as just the way it is....

and while BCRA was flawed (overbearing in some respects, weak in others), Citizen's United has sent us down a dangerous path...surging towards Fascism.

I have a common sense solution to the problem: Government acting as a buyer and seller in the marketplace can stipulate in contracts with those it does business with that said party to the contract cannot donate to(independently/directly) or be involved with candidate specific campaigns.
In a similar regard, Congress could simply make it a law that you can't lobby government within a certain measure and also contribute directly or indirectly to candidate specific campaigns, as part of its responsibilities to ensure a Republican form of government.

Other problems relate to enforcement mechanisms and separating candidate specific campaigns from issue campaigns. What it comes down to is a need for strict rules...and not crazed Kafkaesque loopholes that allow shadowy political organizations to masquerade as charities and non-profits.
Everybody still has a right to unlimited issue campaigning and to lobby government. They just can't lobby government or engage in commerce with government and also contribute to candidate specific campaigns.

Government should consider policy ideas based on their merit....not on campaign contributions.

Furthermore, we need a buffer zone b/n public management and private employment, as opposed to the leadership level revolving doors between the public and private sectors, which the elites currently enjoy.

This is how we will restore Virtue...and a government "of, by, and for" the people.

I demand action be taken on this proposal at once.

Power to the People!

10-08-2011, 09:45 PM

P-2
Three Rivers, MI
Posts: 12

Campaign Finance Reform would be a tough haul. It has been ruled in the Supreme Court that policiticians are not required to disclose their funding backers. That's a real problem... Someone needs to look at Rick Perry's supporters list... as well as others. We might not have that information available and no way to get it. Anyone with ideas on how to change that?

10-08-2011, 11:30 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

My plan holds constitutional water even in the wake of Citizen's United.

10-09-2011, 09:07 AM

lacisash2
Norwalk, CT
Posts: 1

One correction The media is corporate bought. As long as this is the case we will never see the real truth coming out.

10-09-2011, 05:12 PM

gary/chgo
Not Selected
Posts: 1

volunteer in existing dem.party change from with in ; better a occupy wall str nation wide movement then civil war ; gop has no shame or boundaries to there end game

10-11-2011, 12:31 PM

Karma2u
Davie, FL
Posts: 1

Thoughts on OWS - This is the most authentic movement of "We the People" that we have seen in a long time. It is in direct response to the abuse of America by Wall Street and the greedy corporations who have taken away middle class jobs, neglected our country's infrastructure, and bought off our representatives, the voting system, the SCOTUS, and some of the media.

OWS seeks to stop the abuse of America and reinvest in rebuilding it. That is why you see all types of Americans joining this movement, and we should all walk together to the voting booths as well.

My choice for the Ben & Jerry flavor to honor OWS is - People Power Mint.

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