John Hagee: "Hitler was fulfilling God's Will"...

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Forums > All Posts > John Hagee: "Hitler was fulfilling God's Will"...

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08-16-2011, 01:31 PM

ChristyR
Denton, TX
Posts: 311

Some of you may remember this, but during the 2008 election John Hagee (McCain supporter for the election) went on a rampage about how Hilter was fulfilling God's will with the Holocaust.

Do you think that the loss of Jewish votes played a big part in McCain's loss?

I randomly came across this article and AUDIO clip. Check it out. Let me know what you think.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html

08-16-2011, 04:52 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058

Jewish-Americans have always voted predominantly Democratic. Obama got 78 percent of the Jewish vote in 2008, slightly better than Kerry's 76 percent in 2004. Clinton got 80 percent and 78 percent in his two elections.

I think it speaks more to the knowledge and intelligence of the Jewish voters on the issues of the day. In my conversations with Jewish voters, they always seem to be well versed in their civics and political issues. I may not always agree with them, but they have always done their homework.

08-24-2011, 12:55 PM

Delta
Not Selected
Posts: 1

RE: John Hagee. Elections always bring the nuts out of the trees. I don't think Hagee is a prophet and therefore he does not get to speak for God.

Re: Jews voting Democratic. I believe it shows exactly the opposite of what the precious poster said. It speaks to the lack of knowledge and understanding of the Jewish voter. If the vote was split more evenly it would speak better of them.
The Democrats, at least this administration, are perfectly willing to throw Israel under the bus to appease the murderous Muslims.

11-12-2011, 11:49 AM

Bluenoser
Not Selected
Posts: 5

Have to agree, the Democrats have embraced even catered to Muslims obviusly at the potential peril of Jews in Israel.

11-12-2011, 11:55 AM

Bluenoser
Not Selected
Posts: 5

I think what Hagee was eluding to was the persecution of the Jews during WW2 resulted in the Jews getting a homeland in Israel,which has been part of biblical prophesy, therefore concluding that God used Hitler , his intent for evil, for good.

11-12-2011, 05:01 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058

I will reiterate. I know-Jewish Americans and they take pride in the "American" part of the label. They are not one issue voters like many on the Christian right that will only vote for a person based on their Christian identity, never mind the fact that that vote often goes against their own economic interests.

A March 2010 poll of Jewsih Americans by the progressive pro-Israel group, J-Street showed:

American Jews by a four-to-one margin, 82-18 percent, support the United States playing an active role in helping the parties to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict, with 73 percent of American Jews supporting this active role even if it means that the United States were to publicly state its disagreements with both the Israelis and the Arabs.
By a 71-29 percent margin, American Jews support the United States "exerting pressure" on both the Israelis and the Arabs to make the necessary compromises to achieve peace. An earlier J Street poll last March found a similar level of support.
A majority of all American Jews, 52-48 percent, still support an active role even if the United States were to publicly state its disagreements with only Israel. American Jews are evenly split on support for exerting pressure on only Israel, a notion that J Street opposes.
60 percent of American Jews believe Israel’s announcement of new housing in East Jerusalem caused damage to U.S.-Israel relations, and 55 percent say the United States was right to strongly criticize the Israeli announcement of new housing in East Jerusalem during Vice President Biden’s visit.

This is what I mean by Jewish Americans voting intelligently. Their knowledge of domestic and foreign issues would put most Republicans to shame, and that goes for the current slate of Republican candidates who seem to take pride in ignorance...or will readily flip-flop on a moment's notice.

Having said that I am not a supporter of of the Israel Likud Party or other right wingers in the state. I believe that the majority of Jews would welcome a two state solution and are supportive of Obama in that effort. They are not anti-Muslim as the Christian right would have you believe.

One final note...those that seek to demean or disparge Arabs and Muslims in this website are only showing their own racial and religous bigotry and ignorance. I won't engage them.

11-13-2011, 09:53 AM

that guy in Arizona
Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 158

Schmidt:

I've read a few of your comments, and wanted to let you know that I appreciate your well-researched and thoughtul comments. Your comments about the Muslims struck a chord, since that particular religious group is still misunderstood in America.

Historically, the Muslims have suffered a LOT of discrimination at the hands of "the Christians", which is explained more fully below:

http://www.tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2009/06/book-of-signs.html

Just as importantly, you wouldn't have had your morning coffee this morning without the help of the Muslims:

http://www.tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2009/03/muslims-and-dancing-goats.html

11-14-2011, 08:55 AM

Veronica
Not Selected
Posts: 205

PERTAINING TO THE REASONS that JEWS VOTE For the DEMOCRATS.

The Jews are very intelligent well-educated people. They also know that the GOP party is the financier of the most radical hate groups in our society. Like the KKK, (the guys with the white sheets), and the neo-Nazis, just to name a few. Since the Nazis were the people who stuck Jews in the ovens in World War 2, it just comes naturally for Jews to hate the neo-Nazis. So the Jews will vote for the Democrats -- instead of the neo-Nazi lovers in the Republican party.
YES, American neo-Nazis still hate the Jews, just like their ancestors did in the WWII era. The "ghost" of Hitler still lives on, goose-stepping across the pages of our history.

*AN INTERESTING FACT: All the so-called (right wing) "Christians" who believe that Jesus was the son of God --- they all ignore the fact that JESUS WAS A JEW. His mother Mary and her husband Joseph were JEWS, & most of the people living in Israel were JEWISH. The Bible tells how Jesus spoke to the rabbis in the Temple when he was only 12. So the right wing Christians would have been busy killing Jesus, their Savior, because he was Jewish --- & thus they'd NOT be going to Heaven. (poetic justice: ) : )

11-14-2011, 09:40 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058

That guy in Arizona,

Thanks for your comments regarding Muslims and also the links. It is true that many Americans do not understand Islam, but what is even more damning is their misconceptions, ignorance and outright hatred, in some cases, of what Islam and Muslims represent. Many living within their own sheltered neigborhood enclaves have had little direct association with Muslims or the ethnic groups and nationalities commonly associated with Muslims...Arabs, Indonesians, Pakistani, Iranians, etc. So I often wonder how and why they can show such strong feelings. I can appreciate that 9/11 influenced some Muslim haters, and they will certainly point their finger in that direction to find excuses for their bigotry. But Islamophobia had its roots in this country well before 9/11, as Arabs and Muslims were commonly portrayed negatively in the media...the news media, Hollywood films, TV programs, the print media, right wing radio talk show programs, and some elements of the Christian talk radio (e.g. Pat Robertson).

Especially since 9/11 some cable news stations like Fox News regularly parade out Muslim haters like Pamela Geller to give her a pulpit to spew out her hatred to their captive audience. Of course, Rush Limbaugh, the champion hate profiteer, reaches across the entire United States to give his daily dosage of hate. And then there is Pat Robertson...a Christian? Ha!

So it is no wander that so many Americans have been conditioned to hate. But despite the efforts of the hate mongers, they are still in the minority. I still believe in the goodness of the American people of all religious denominations and non-believers and political affiliations. The more Americans are educated and understand, their false perceptions of the Muslim stereotype change. I for one had the honor and privilege of living, working and traveling in Muslim countries during my working career including 3 years in the 1970s living in Tripoli, Libya where my son was born. My mother, an evangelical Lutheran, had some misgivings about us living there, but I had to reassure her on more than one occasion: "it's nothing like that" as she relayed something she had seen on TV. My overseas experiences were all very positive...the kindness shown to me and my wife by the Libyan people, all Muslims, will be with me forever, as are my working experiences with other Muslims...Iranians, Indonesians, Egyptians, Dubaians and others.

In my retirement, I have spent more time reading about the history of the various countries that I have visited and also those Muslim countries that America is at odds with...Afghanisitan, Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan. They all have a rich history and as you pointed out contributed to many of the things Western society takes for granted...coffee being just a tiny part of it. One could spend days reading and marveling at the many contributions to our modern society brought about during the The Golden Age of Islam, 750-1258. Rania in the Historian blog wrote a brief account of it in 2009, and following her blog she provides a list of books for those that want to learn more.

From Rania:
"Ornament of the World "How Muslims, Jews, and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain" by Maria Rosa Menocal
"When Baghdad Ruled the Muslim World: The Rise and Fall of Islam's Greatest Dynasty" by Hugh Kennedy
"Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance (Transformations: Studies in the History of Science and Technology)" by George Saliba

I haven't read those particular books, but I have spent time trying to understand, and in particular, why so many Muslims hate us in return. One doesn't have to dig very deep to understand that. While the Christian Crusades occurred a long time ago, the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in Iran in 1953 is just one more recent example of where the United States and the United Kingdom collaborated in a coup d'état against the Iranian people. That coup installed the Shah back into power and unleased a 25 year rein of terror against the Iranian people that has never been forgotten. Then there is the question of Palestine, which I have discussed before in this website, but brings out the worst of the Israel Firsters. I won't go there now.

I think Americans should read more history instead of watching cable news. We need more tolerance and understanding of other cultures and religions, but some of our current slate of Republicans have even advocated abolishing the Department of Education.

12-02-2011, 02:48 PM

Cracam
Not Selected
Posts: 63

Wow Schmidt and Arizona guy you need to get out more...the problem with watching/listening to only 1 side of the story is you get only 1 point of view...perhaps people like Pamela Geller et al are hyper sensitive to Muslim's because since 9/11 over 17,000...yes 17,000 bombing's or murders have been committed in the name of Allah...every day we're seeing Muslims raised here in North America plotting and killing Democrats...Sharia Law is already taking hold in areas like Dearborn Michigan. I would think that Democrats who encourage Gay rights, abortions etc would be 1st in line to decry Islam's treatment of women/gays...if you hold the ideal that Right-wingers and Republicans are intolerant they cant hold a candle to Islam and Sharia Law..try going to jihadwatch.com with an open mind and you'll be flabbergsted. Today's news for example is a University in Saudia Arabia did a "scientific" study that shows women being allowed to drive..yes drive a vehicle...would cause prostitution, homoexuality, divorce...but your o.k. with that, right?

12-02-2011, 03:03 PM

Cracam
Not Selected
Posts: 63

Veronica...wow do you have it wrong..the Christian right is pro-Jew ,Pro-Isreal..True Christians know that Israel is God's chosen people, and they are well aware that Jesus was a Jew. Your insinuation of the Christian Right having ties to the K.K.K. or Skin-heads is baseless and nothing more than fearmongering...

12-02-2011, 06:46 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058

Cracam,

Most most people that join this website do so to share in intellectual discussions about the problems in our society. We have a variety of views from extreme liberal to moderately conservative to liberartian and even conservative. We discuss and debate views with the expectation that facts are real facts and not Faux Facts. Those from the right that come on and demean our members or their views never seem to have any facts...they often just regurgitate talking points from Fox News or Rush Limbaugh and ultimately they might find themselves bumped off.

For those that have read many of my postings, the last thing I have ever been accused of is "not getting out more." You probably didn't read my posting about living in other countries or in typical right wing fashion you dismissed it as not relevant.

During my working career (I'm now retired) my wife and I had the privilege of living a total of 16 years in overseas locations. I worked with different nationalities and religions...and it was my responsibility to understand and respect their religions and customs. Many of those were Muslims, some of which invited us into their homes. I got to know them well...I called many of them at the time my friends. Not once was any hostility shown to me or my wife by any Muslim. In fact just the opposite...I couldn't have been treated more respectfully.

Likewise within the USA my wife and I have lived and traveled in different locations, and in the process we have met many good Americans with different cultural, religious and national identities...Hispanics, Latinos, Vietnamese, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis and more. And you know what? I didn't meet any that I didn't like or were not friendly. I think our society has been enriched by immigrants, both legal and illegal. They are what make America exceptional.

So I would push back on you and state "you need to get out more...the problem with watching/listening to only one side of the story is you get only one point of view"...the anti-Muslim crusading Fox News view, or perhaps it is the Muslim hating Rush Limbaugh. My views are based on first hand personal experiences, and I would encourage you to get out more...seek events and venues that feature Muslims...seek to understand instead of villify. Get out more and meet Muslims first hand. I'm sure if you made the effort you would not be so critical and one dimensional in your views.

12-02-2011, 07:29 PM

Cracam
Not Selected
Posts: 63

No comment on the 17,000 atrocities committed by muslims? If this were Fundamental Christians, you know those dangerous people that have the gall to pass out pamphlets on street corners, you would be screaming mad. How long has it been since you lived and rubbed shoulders with these fine people, I'm guessing it's been a while. You and your wife should take another vacation to Egypt, or Libya, Somalia or Nigeria, or Malaysia or Iraq or Iran or Afghanastan, or Pakistan etc etc but don't take the tourist route. No not every Muslim is a terrorist, but other than a select few, there is no condemnation of these terrorists in the Muslim community. Do you deny that there are cells in the U.S. or Canada that are planning the destruction of our nations? What other religous group is involved in such activities? NONE. How can you condone a group that has zero tolerence for women, gays, Jews etc, etc ? I'm sorry but 7th century mentality in the 21st century isn't working.

12-02-2011, 07:39 PM

Cracam
Not Selected
Posts: 63

Oh yeah, I'm Canadian so i don't get Fox on my basic cable and other than knowing that Limbaugh has a talk-show on the radio, which I've never heard, my opinions are my own, are yours? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on certain things, isn't that what makes America great?

12-02-2011, 10:48 PM

that guy in Arizona
Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 158

Cracam (and Schmidt):

My Google search of "how many Muslim atrocities have occurred since 2001) didn't turn up anything remotely related to 17,000 atrocities, but DID pull up the link below, which conveys a much different view of Muslims (some of whom are my friends and co-workers):

groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

Unlike most Americans, I've actually read the Koran, and have two copies on my bookshelf. I also produced a 4500 "book report" about the book, even thought it took me a 1.5 liter of wine to get through the process.

Being exposed to other cultures always gives a more balanced look at "other folks".
I spent a year living in southern China, and came to the realization that all those "Godless Communists" were actually better "Christians" (if we define that to mean acting as Christ would have acted) than quite a number of "Christians" that I've met in the States. Thomas Friedman (of the New York Times) has traveled extensively, which is why virtually everything that he has written displays a wisdom that is largely absent from the "mass media" in America.

If you've never listened to Rush Limbaugh ...
consider that a blessing ....

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