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Forums > All Posts > Obama on the Israel "Occupation"
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05-23-2011, 08:03 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
Quotes worth noting:

"You cannot like the word, but what is happening is an occupation -- to hold 3.5 million Palestinians under occupation. I believe that is a terrible thing for Israel and for the Palestinians."  -- Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, May 27, 2003 as reported by CNN World: 'Occupation' terrible for Israel, Palestinians

"There should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967. The agreement must establish a Palestine as a homeland for the Palestinian people just as Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people." -- George W. Bush, Jan 8, 2008 on his visit to the West Bank as reported by the Associated Press: Bush: Israel must end 'occupation' of Arab land.

"The dream of a Jewish and democratic state cannot be fulfilled with permanent occupation." -- Barack Obama as a part of his Middle East speech on May 19, 2011. Transcript from the Guardian.

"In fact -- look, the language is there. I mean, when President Obama talks about Israel occupying, you know, you can't have a vibrant democracy as long as you depend upon occupation -- that's the language of the left. That is the language of those who hate Israel and why he adopts it is beyond me." -- Karl Rove on Sean Hannity's show, May 20, 2011 as reported by Media Matters: Rove Bashes Obama For Using Language On Israel Employed By Bush and Former Israeli Prime Minister

Of course this kind of rhetoric could be expected from Fox News and Karl Rove...twisting the facts as always. As Obama stated, he was only stating in public what has been talked about in private.  Furthermore, the demand that Israel stop the occupation goes all the way back to UN Resoulation 252:

UN Security Council Resolution 252 of May 21, 1968 states:

Reaffirming that acquisition of territory by military conquest is inadmissible,

1. Deplores the failure of Israel to comply with the General Assembly resolutions mentioned above;

2. Considers that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, including expropriation of land and properties thereon, which tend to change the legal status of Jerusalem are invalid and cannot change that status;

3. Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind all such measures already taken and to desist forthwith from taking any further action which tends to change the status of Jerusalem;

4. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the implementation of the present resolution.

The main problem with American public opinion is that it is so misinformed. And I would not fault the many Jewiesh groups in the United States and Israel that support Obama's position.  Rather it is a part of an orchestrated campaign by the religious right to "preserve the state of Israel" for the second coming of Christ at a place called Aramgeddon in Israel.  Read Gary North's, The Foreign Policy of 20 million Would-Be Mortals. North claims that their Christian Fundamentalist beliefs rest entirely on the existence of the State of Israel. Quoting North:

It should be clear why they believe that Israel must be defended at all costs by the West. If Israel were removed militarily from history prior to the Rapture, then the strongest case for Christians' imminent escape from death would have to be abandoned. This would mean the indefinite delay of the Rapture. The fundamentalist movement thrives on the doctrine of the imminent Rapture, not the indefinitely postponed Rapture.

Since May 21st has come and passed, I thought I would throw in that last quote.  Comments welcomed...

05-23-2011, 12:45 PM
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CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897
Like Pres. Reagan's 'peace-nik' streak, Bush II's pointed usage of the word "occupation," in describing Israel's relationship with the Gaza Strip and West Bank, was an about-turn from rhetoric and image. Only Nixon could go to China. And only Reagan could make peace with the Soviets, and only Bush could use the word "occupation."

But really, what else do you call it? A forward position? "Occupation" is not the language of the left; it appears in the dictionary, which I assume is non-partisan. Karl Rove is ridiculous. He's permanently drunk on the power of fear.

What a Bat Shit Crazy World we live in, eh? We now face ruin because of the last chapter of a mythical book. Our foreign policy is paralyzed by a spooky and voyeuristic prophecy. It's like we live in Middle-Earth.
See: Heresy-NIN

Frank...er, excuse me, Schmidt, you've talked about it before, but we seriously have got to remove religion's tax-exempt status. The May 21st Rapture that just came and went strongly illustrates why. People are being fleeced by charlatans across the countryn, and we, the tax payers, are subsidizing it! And they call us socialists?

See:  God in HD (Ghosts)-NIN

Fundamentalist religion in America is 1984-style oligarchical-socialist mind control!
05-24-2011, 06:51 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
I watched parts of Netanyahu's speech to a joint session of Congress today.  There were 57 breaks for applause and 29 standing ovations and I mean really standing and cheering, especially when he defied our President on the question of the 1967 borders. It was "rock star" treatment.  But was it really deserved? Or was Congress making a political statement ?  One commentator called it unprecedented...even more than any accolades we give our Presidents, past and present.

Do the people of America really know what Netanyahu and his right wing Likud Party stands for? One only has to read the daily diaries and news from Gaza and the refugee camps of Israeli oppression and apartheid against the Palestinians...over the last 60 plus years. Is the Likudist Party and their extreme right wing rhetoric what America should be embracing and supporting with such a public display of arrogance and insensitivity?

I think not.
05-25-2011, 12:22 AM
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CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897
The uproar over 1967 borders with swaps is just plain stupid. If 1967 borders are indefensible because the Palestinians are such awful bastards, then why the hell are the settlers moving closer to the Palestinians? If security is so fragile, why do the Likuds support settlements in the occupied West Bank? Benny's arguments are bullpuckey. It's a land grab. We should know.
05-29-2011, 08:06 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058
Media Matters has observed what many in the USA just don't understand.  The attacks on Obama by Glenn Beck, Ben Shapiro and others, primarily in the Fox News bubble, for his support of a separate Palestinian state do not come from the American Jewish population.  According to Adam Shah of Media Matters:

"The right-wing media is sure that President Obama betrayed Israel and "sided with the terrorists" with his restatement of U.S. policy that the Israelis and Palestinians should come to a peace agreement that results in a "secure Israel" and "viable Palestine" with "borders ... based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states.""

"But a funny thing happened. American Jews -- 78 percent of whom voted for Obama in the 2008 election -- didn't immediately rise up against the president. So the conservative media found their next target for attack: American Jews."

The Jewish-Americans that I know are much too intelligent to fall in line with the race baiting Glenn Beck.  What people don't understand is that the Christian Fundamentalist movement in America is the largest and most influential opponent of a Palestinian state based on any borders. Beliefnet published an article by Timothy Weber in 2004 entitled, On the Road to Armageddon...with a subtitle of, How evangelicals became Israel's best friend.   Weber cites a Time/CNN poll taken in 2004:

"While only 36 percent of all Americans believe that the Bible is God's Word and should be taken literally, 59 percent say they believe that events predicted in the Book of Revelation will come to pass. Almost one out of four Americans believes that 9/11 was predicted in the Bible, and nearly one in five believes that he or she will live long enough to see the end of the world. Even more significant for this study, over one-third of those Americans who support Israel report that they do so because they believe the Bible teaches that the Jews must possess their own country in the Holy Land before Jesus can return."

The Jewish-American population of the United States is relatively small compared to the Christian fundamentalists.  And in any case, from prior polls that I have seen, a majority of Jewish-Americans support a separate Palestinian state.  The Republican Party and their propaganda outlet, Fox News, are heavy into the Chriatian fundamentalist orthodoxy, not necessarily that they all believe the prophecies of the Book of Revelations, but that they NEED these voters to enhance their voter base.  The Christian fundamentalists put all their Biblical issues ahead of any economic issues...and therefore they are now the core of the Republican Party.  And foremost amongst those Biblical issues is that the State of Israel...indeed the "Land of Israel" must be preserved.

05-31-2011, 06:51 PM

drawstrong
Berkeley, CA
Posts: 5
I think the issue is not the Israeli return to 1967 borders but rather the issue at hand is Obama.

In his Middle East speech Obama implied that he would recognize a unity agreement with the Palestinian group Hamas and has been exceedingly vague on the issue. This doesn't really satisfy any Israeli concerns on security.

Obama has not pressued the Israelis on Settlements but nor the Palestinians on even showing up to talks. Oh he's talked a lot about it, but its all lip service. He doesn't have the guts to take a stand. As a result a large population thinks he's being weak on Arab terrorism and it furthers the image of him being an illegal Muslim, which I don't think he is personally, but I understand it when more and more of my centrist/moderate friends think
06-01-2011, 01:10 AM
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CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897
Weak on Arab terrorism? 
Obama's killing terrorists left and right.  And he's completely detached from the anti-war progressive-left. 

It doesn't take an anti-semite to realize that the Israeli lobby exerts powerful control over American foreign policy w/ Israel.  Both conservatives, like Eric Cantor, and liberals, like Anthony Weiner, can turn into vicious rightwingers when it comes  to Palestinians. 
I have several politically liberal Jewish friends who simply loose  their shit when the conversation comes to Israel vs. Palestine.  Thankfully, they will listen to me....considering my grandmother's family had to escape Nazi Germany and I turn into an Inglorious Basterd  whenever I even smell Nazi.

But the day I saw pictures of Jewish kids spray painting the Star of David like a Swatstika on Palestinian homes was a day part of me died. 

Israel ain't facing no holocaust in the Mideast.  If that were the case they should be in retreat , not advancing further in between segmented Palestinian communities.   Why would you want to live closer to people who want to kill you? 
And as far as Palestinian grievances are concerned, a lot of it we really don't know the half of. 
You couldn't get building permits for decades in the West Bank.  Palestinians would build something and the IDF would tear it down. 
Nothing the Palestinians could do.  Well...besides blow themselves up, which they're not very good at.  The kill ration in this running holy war is 11 to 1 in favor of Israel.

Just as Gen. Patreus has overseen a policy of negotiating with terrorists and insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan who have been willing to lay down their arms....(ie Sunni Awakening movement and Afghan Peace Council)....my hope is that Obama would do the same with Hamas, should it commit to a peaceful two-state solution. 
And I hope your God has mercy on all of our dirty little hearts, if you believe in that sort of thing.
06-01-2011, 08:06 PM

drawstrong
Berkeley, CA
Posts: 5
Nice to know you derive your position on Israel from a series of pictures. Because photographs never lie.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DQrxT0TS5PM/SwNLFM4DFOI/AAAAAAAAFvs/hTJ5ZQat4uM/s1600/barack_obama_muslim1.jpg

Did your grandmother ever know that you slander and belittle the Holocaust to push foward your ridiculous notion that Israel is a new third reich. Because I can show you some pictures Swatstika's spray painted like Swastikas on Jewish homes by Americans right here in Berkeley.

Oh I'd be intrested to see where Hamas has ever commited to a peacefult wo state solution.

Cheers.
06-01-2011, 10:41 PM
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CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897
Look, I don't think Israel is a "New Third Reich"....I think Israel is the old South Africa.

And I don't derive my position from a series of pictures.

I think the treatment of Arab Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza is terrible. And no matter what way you slice or dice it....the founding of the modern state of Israel was a raw deal.

I got nothing against Jews. By their laws, my own father is a Jew.

I support Israel's right to exist. In a time when power is everything, they stole it fair and square as far as I'm concerned, but that still gives them no right to mistreat the local civilian population.

Just like everybody else in this world, Israelis and Jews are guilty of losing control of the "inner T-Rex" (from the movie Stepbrothers).  And I'm not an anti-Semite for pointing that out. 

I hope my grandmother would be proud of me. She died of breast cancer when my dad was nine. 
And thanks to public policy that I support today (With Teeth) millions of women have a better chance of surviving breast cancer. 
Good day to you, sir.
12-03-2011, 09:17 PM

Cracam
Not Selected
Posts: 63
You need to read the book "Son of Hamas"...very insightful as to how the Arab States and groups like Hamas and Hezzbullah are USING the Palestiaians as guinea-pigs in the middle east struggle...
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