2014 HEALTHCARE MANDATE OVERRULED

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Forums > All Posts > 2014 HEALTHCARE MANDATE OVERRULED

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2010-12-13 11:18 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

see: Health-reform advocates have little to fear from judge's ruling..

So here we have a Bush appointee, who is part-owner of a Republican campaign-consulting firm that fought against the overhaul....who has ruled the individual mandate unconstitutional.....U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson.....Can you say conflict of frickin interest?

So what is the proper way to frame the mandate....besides as a Republican idea?

Well.....what it amounts to is a tax increase on all Americans.....and then a tax credit equivalent to the tax increase for being responsible and purchasing healthcare from a regulated exchange where consumers aren't sheep to the lions....

No one is compelled to buy healthcare anymore than they are compelled to buy a Hummer because the government offers a tax credit for doing so.....

OBAMACARE IS A REAL FREEMARKET SOLUTION.....don't ever back down from that my friends....GET WITH IT!
Mahalo,
EPK

"If Noah had the benefit of hindsight on his ship
He could've snatched two unicorns and left behind the mother#$%@ing...
PIGS!" - Aesop Rock

2011-06-18 12:57 PM

LaMiller
Not Selected
Posts: 4

how in the world is ObamaCare a free market solution. The only thing that is going to be accomplished from ObamaCare is in roughly 15 years every single private insurance agency will be gone and everyone will be turning to a Government health insurance plan, and we all know how those work in other countries, i.e. England, Canada, and well all of Europe for that matter. In those countries the rich get the best treatment while everyone gets to wait an eternity for necessary healthcare. But back to ObamaCare and proof of what I am saying is truth. ALREADY 30% of privatized health practices are dumping their business and going to a establish hospital that will be able to withstand Obamacare, this was reported and another stat by One of the TOP private investing companies in the united states, the other stat was that 30% of businesses are going to drop healthcare coverage on their employees because its going to be cheaper to pay the penalty then pay for healthcare. For example my uncles is a successful business owner and he is going to have to drop healthcare coverage on 80 employees, you may think he is evil but when it comes down to it businesses want to maximize profits so guess what there going to look at, THE BOTTOM LINE. And dont say that he has a lot a money so hes automatically evil, no. Who in the world gave Democrats the right to say lets punish them by taxing them more because they can take, question: does it make sense to punish someone just because their successful and they can take the blow? The answer to that is NO. What gives us the right to do that. Lets look at any historical document that helped form our nation into what does it say: All men are created equal, not just the middle class or just the poor or just the wealthy. ALL MEN. You can talk all day that taxing the wealthy a higher percentage is fair. But if its not what everyone else has to pay then guess what it is not equal. Don't get me started on how many people take advantage of the welfare system, Americans im not just saying liberals im saying all Americans need to be held accountable for their actions and basically thats what all this politics comes down to. Liberals want to be a back brace for when you fall and Conservatives want you to think about a decision before you do it, and understand what the consequences are. I am not saying all liberals are bad and all conservatives are good but i am saying that we should hold each other accountable for our actions and not have government bail us out everytime we fall because then we come dependent on the that back brace and can not make decisions rationally thinking. You can say all you want back to me but honestly you know the last half of what I've wrote his the 100% truth. Call me evil all you want, i try to care about everyone equally. I work at soup kitchens and habitat for humanity and donate what i can to charities i know i do not have a lot but i try to do my part in making this country better for everyone and I'm doing that without the governments help so why cant everyone? I know there are the exceptions for the people that we brought up in a poor situation but for the people that are financially on there feet, why do we need to rely on the government for anything, we are big kids, we can make our own decisions without the government watching every step we do just to make sure were on the path that they want us on. This is a free country and making our own decisions is what this country is all about.

2011-06-18 03:48 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

You got a lot of stuff here all rammed together. Try to write in paragraph form next time.

I'm gonna zero in on the claim that employers currently offering insurance are going to drop it when it is required of them.
Most employers are not currently required by the state to offer healthcare. Why do some employers offer it now?
And why would they drop it, when they are going to recieve a tax incentive to continue offering care come 2014?
So this argument that 'employers are going to stop offering care in droves' is complete nonsense!

The CBO said that currently 7-9 million people keep jobs solely for health insurance reasons, and that if they could get affordable private insurance w/ out prexisting conditions clauses, they would likely leave their jobs. However, Healthcare Reform will also require more employers to provide care, thus leaving the size of the employer provided market relatively unchanged.

The individual mandate was an Orin Hatch, Bob Dole, Chuck Grassley, and Newt Gingrich concieved alternative to Hillary Care.
It was a Republican idea.

Look, I don't like private insurance. I don't believe in it. The most effective way to make PROVIDER MARKETS more COMPETITIVE is through Medicare-for-all with means-tested copays.
Politically, that's a tough sell.

But if we're going to have private health insurance in this country, it ought to be regulated on behalf of consumers. So yeah, Obamacare is a real free market solution. I believe that a free market is not created by a lack of regulations, but by regulations that protect liberty and promote the common welfare.

Obamacare is about Unionism. It's about making this country whole. It's not left-wing..It's not right-wing. It runs right down the Center of American politics. It's a compromise....and I actively support Health Reform, despite all that my side gave up. And I salute the President on a job well done.

2011-06-18 09:27 PM

LaMiller
Not Selected
Posts: 4

Okay, employers offer health care to keep the workers happy and they want to do that at the minimum price, but mainly to keep them happy. Question: are they going to be getting a tax incentive every year? At my uncles business he offers healthcare to 80 employees and he doesnt offer health insurance to about 20 employees, that Requirement that he has to now insure another 20 employees is what is going to be killing him. And as it stand he will be paying more for health insurance under ObamaCare then he would now. So it is costing him a lot of money to do this and he is running a business and any owner of a business would understand why he would drop healthcare coverage. If it is a one time tax incentive then i would get it for a year and then drop it after the tax incentive is gone.

When you said i dont like private insurance, i see why your a liberal. And you are right about private insurance getting to expensive it has and everyone agree that the healthcare system needs reform but not in a way that will put all private insurers out of business.

Heres a question: What is the standard for common welfare? That answer is up to interpretation from person to person. But consumers judge the market and if they are being mistreated theyll go some where else to a place that treats them well at a reasonable price. Honestly in a perfect society where the government is perfect i would agree with you but its not and we have to realize that it the world is not perfect and the government is either. I believe that there needs to be regulation to insurance companies but leave it up to the individual states not the federal government. Our country needs to accept that people think differently, like me and you for example. If you want a government control healthcare then go to a state that has it. And if i want to have my own choice to choose what healthcare provider at what cost, ill go to that state. States should be the one that should of taken care of this not the federal government.

2011-06-18 11:24 PM

CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897

Well according to the United States v. South-Eastern Underwriter's Association (1945) the federal government can regulate healthcare.
The McCarran-Ferguson Act was subsequently passed delegating this authority to the states.

Since states have not developed their own universal healthcare plans, or a cost-effective regulatory regime, the federal government has stepped in.
Obamacare creates federal minimums, and gives states the ability to opt-out and create their own (near) universal healthcare plans.

I want to help people. Good honest, decent, people are drowning in a system that threw them overboard decades ago. This is beyond the realm of personal responsibility.

I'm against private tyranny as much, as I'm against state tyranny.

The reason I don't like private insurance is that I simply don't believe the profit motive can be reconciled with what's best for the healthcare needs of the American people. That hardly makes me a liberal, or defines me as one. Liberalism created the free-market.
Modern Social-Liberalism is effectively divided between the Progressive-Left and Liberal-Centrists. Most in the Progressive-Left resemble Democratic-Socialists, while Liberal-Centrists believe in regulated private market solutions (soft neoliberalism) .

As a Libertarian-Socialist, I support the democratization of the state and private employment. I believe our current wage-labor system is akin to "wage-slavery." I support the development of Cooperative Capitalism (ie.....worker and consumer owned businesses) and Municipal-Socialism (ie.....Citizen & City owned and ran banks, power providers, and other utility districts).
I am not a Marxist, and I don't believe in imminent domain. I believe in the legal & competitive development of such a society. I am not against private corporations or private businesses. I don't want to abolish them. I want Co-op Capitalism & Municipal Socialism to compete with them. And I don't want to centrally plan it, either.

2011-06-19 05:46 PM

Chickie P
Not Selected
Posts: 12

I live in MA and as far as I know, no insurance company went out of business yet! lol If anything? They have increased the premiums (as they do every year) and people whom are under-employed aka working poor (like hourly Walmart workers) can now get access to Health Care Insurance for a small monthly premium and they can choose a plan from a list of packages that are still provided BY Insurance companies and developed by BOTH the Insurance Co's and a government agency. A collaboration. Beats people going to the ER for Non-Emergency health care services and costing you and I and everyone else @ $1,000.00 a year to pay for it WITH your Higher Health Care Insurance payments!! It's a Win/Win! Your Premiums will eventually stop increasing hopefully. Hell, Walmart pays crap hourly wages (on purpose, so they don't have to pay out any Ins. subsidy to their workers) and most of their workers have been using Gov. Programs to survive anyway! Food Stamps and ER's! Just like our military families were forced to do for food! Why isn't your uncle using the many tax incentives Obama put in place for small businesses?

2011-10-09 02:31 AM

thankfulforall
Durham, NC
Posts: 4

Thanks to the Dems that are ok with Obamacare. I am. People that believe it's a big pain in the butt really are ignorant about it. There have been some people that are really sick, and no longer face death because of this Program. They can finally get insurance to have medication and surgery to save them. The Premiums will go down eventually because they'll be more people insured. I have no problem with it. It will also crack down on Medicare fraud and the like. They may tweak it a litte to keep companies from over charging and the like. We're not like the companies abroad. It will be a Godsend in the future. The GOP don't like it, because it is Federally run. I say, we can all benefit from it's equality.

2011-10-10 03:36 PM

WeThePeople
Not Selected
Posts: 7

I have to chime in on this one...Being an ardent democrat this is the one action I have to stand up for and say the American people have been screwed. I am on medical and medicaid (disabled) and have a condition that is afflicting many Americans these days. In the support forums, those that are on private insurance are getting care quickly and are getting real help- some have even come off disability and gotten surgery to sorrect the issue. But those of us on the government solution aren't getting the same care. We can't get the same tests that those on private insurance have gotten. Unfortunately , the symptoms we have we need specialized tests to occur when we are experiencing the problems which may only last for a few days. Under private insurance my support freinds have been able to go in, get approved and have the tests done almost imediately(a day at most). I've had the tests 6 times already and each time I have symptoms is has taken nearly 2 months to get approvals- by that time I seem to not be losing blood and so nothing shows up- they almost caught somethign once but by the time the follow scan was approved nothing was there. Now to make it worse, because the tests have shown nothing in the past I will not be able to get them anymore. Which means I'll just keep getting blood transfusions every few weeks until they can no longer match me and I die from cardiac arrest due to lack of blood. In the long run Obamacare hasn't helped or hurt me - but I see what the rest of America has to look forward too.

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