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Forums > All Posts > Iraq War and the great deception...all bad?
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2010-08-06 10:09 PM
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LLBarry
Beverly, MA
Posts: 299
I've read several websites that say "It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to Al Qaeda." See article. But is that the case, I challenge you to ask around, is there anyone that believes that the Iraq war was fought becasue of mass destruction or 911?

I remember looking back during the times and things being insane. I had just moved back home to Austin, Texas from Boston, Massachusetts when 911 happened. My mom called and woke me up and told me to turn on the tv. I watched, in shock, as I'm sure we all remember 2 planes hit two buildings and one was grounded. I then sat down as I learned the planes came out of Boston and wondered if anyone I knew was on them.

Next, was the insane part, everything happened so quickly, blame was shot to Al Qaeda, and the hunt was on. Initally, i was behind it, I too wanted someone to blame. Then I started question everything that I was hearing, some how none of it added up. It sounded good but it just didn't work.

Now looking back, it had to be the oil that was the draw. No I wouldn't have created such a large deception; but, I'm not sure if given the chance I would go back and change the hunt.... Sad to say, but that's what most of America might have needed. Justice. Or the thought of chasing justice.
2010-08-07 11:03 AM
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CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897
Unfortunately, I disagree, Americans needed Understanding, what they wanted was Vengence.  I cannot explain the hypocrisy of a Christian President launching two wars on nations that are mostly children. 

More soon,

Kaboom
2010-08-08 08:44 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1057
I'll add my perspective.  I agree with Kaboom that what Americans needed was understanding, but what they wanted was vengence. But why the vengence directed at innocent Iraqis who had nothing to do with 9/11? It's because the Bush administration wanted war with Iraq and were looking for an excuse.  They didn't have one so they manufactured one by redirecting the rage from Afghanistan to Iraq. This was a highly calculated move, well thought out, not by Bush himself (he is too dumb) but by the neoconservatives within his administration.

So you ask, why did they want war with Iraq? I can think of at least four reasons. 1) Saddam Hussen was a percieved threat to Israel, and the Israel Lobby controls our Congress, and also at the time, our President, George Bush. Israel needed Saddam Hussein to be taken out. 2) the military-industrial complex needs war to make profits. These war profiteers seek to engage America in endless wars, one after another.  Any war will do as long as its war. 3) access to Iraq's cheap oil, but I downplay this reason because oil is a commodity and sold in exchanges at world market prices.  And it is unlikely that the American oil companies would be able to get a cheap equity stake in the oil fields. This in fact has proven to be true.  American oil companies were shut out in the bidding to buy into the Iraqi fields, and finally 4) George Bush himself.  As governor of Texas he talked about invading Iraq if he was given the chance. The following two paragraphs are extracted from a 2004 article by Russ Baker in Common Dreams.

Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.

"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade�.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency." Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father's shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. "Suddenly, he's at 91 percent in the polls, and he'd barely crawled out of the bunker."

Now obviously Bush was not smart enough to pull this off himself nor was he even the original instigater.  The real brains behind the scenes appealed to his vanity...how it would make him a "great president."

The next step was to get the American people on board, and to do that they resorted to the same tricks applied by totalitarian and other governments over time.  You manufacture rage, or in this case, redirect the 9/11 rage to make people believe that Saddam Hussen was responsible for 9/11. Despite all real evidence to the contrary, the war mongers were able to convince 70 percent of the American population that Saddam Hussen was responsible for 9/11.  See opinion poll in USA Today of September 6th, 2003. And four years later in June 2007, a Newsweek poll showed that 41 percent of Americans still held onto that belief.  This is what you call "cognitive dissonance." It's why the Republicans, with the help of Fox News, are able to hold onto their base so strongly. Never admit you are wrong.

The three tools to control the thinking of a populace are hate, anger and fear.  When people hate or are mad or are afarid they do not think clearly.  They are incapable of understanding. These are the tools that Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh use every day in their broadcasts. It's mind control and it's very effective.  Just look at how many birthers believe Obama is not a REAL American.  They have been taught to hate Obama,  and hate, along with rage and fear, blocks out all rational thought. Three tools of the conservatives for holding onto power...

My wonky two bits worth of opionion.

2010-08-09 12:23 PM
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CARLITOS BAM-BAM
Dallas, TX
Posts: 897
Aloha.....

I remember when the FEAR of the consequences of what we had DONE in IRAQ began to take hold in me.....

The TANKS were on their way to the capital......SHOCK AND AWE....was in full swing...having begun with a failed DECAPITATION strike on a restaurant in BAGHDAD, killing some 30-odd CIVILIANS. 

I remember thinking, my god man, if Saddam has WMD why isn't he using them?  
I never accept the administration's claims that he was an immediate threat, but I did believe in using a credible threat of military force to secure inspections, however, I was horrified by the way President Bush unilaterally ended the process.....

I realized then that we had made the world a more dangerous place, by undermining the legitimacy of non-proliferation regimes.....if Saddam had disarmed, and accepted inspections to verify, yet we still attacked him.......why would anyone disarm?

As a result of our aggression, hardliners recouped power in Iran, while N. Korea's craziness reached all new levels...we gave dictators what they need....a foreign enemy that they can use to distract their own people with for the sake of securing their own power. 

Invading Iraq was not a good strategic decision for the sake of our national security, never mind the morality of war, or that Iraq's population is mostly children.....it was a bad decision for our national security.  I was against it.  I was responsible.  I thought for myself, and I stood strong against the Whirlwind that seemed to pick so many up and dump them off in the cuckoo's nest.  For this, I was called faggot, liar, and coward.....and I will never forget. 

"We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the whole world, a nation of bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are not just Whores for power and oil, but killer whores with hate and fear in our hearts. We are human scum, and that is how history will judge us. No redeeming social value. Just whores. Get out of our way, or we'll kill you. Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush? They are the same ones who wanted to have Muhammad Ali locked up for refusing to kill gooks. They speak for all that is cruel and stupid and vicious in the American character. They are the racists and hate mongers among us; they are the Ku Klux Klan. I piss down the throats of these Nazis. And I am too old to worry about whether they like it or not. Fuck them."  - my hero, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson (Kingdom of Fear 2003)

Mahalo,

Kaboom





















2010-08-11 11:53 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1057
Kaboom makes valid points about our invasion of Iraq.  I remember having strong doubts about any WMDs at the time, mainly because Hans Blix and his team scoured Iraq looking for them and couldn't find them.  "There were about 700 inspections, and in no case did we find weapons of mass destruction," said Hans Blix, in this UC Berkeley interview  on March 18, 2004. Hans Blix is the Swedish diplomat that was called out of retirement to serve as the United Nations' chief weapons inspector from 2000 to 2003; from 1981 to 1997 he headed the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Blix accused U.S. President George W. Bush and U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair of acting not in bad faith, but with a severe lack of "critical thinking." The United States and Britain failed to examine the sources of their primary intelligence - Iraqi defectors with their own agendas for encouraging regime change - with a skeptical eye, he alleged. In the buildup to the war, Saddam Hussein and the Iraqis were cooperating with U.N. inspections, and in February 2003 had provided Blix's team with the names of hundreds of scientists to interview, individuals Saddam claimed had been involved in the destruction of banned weapons. Had the inspections been allowed to continue, Blix said, there would likely be a very different situation in Iraq today. As it was, America's pre-emptive, unilateral actions "have bred more terrorism there and elsewhere."

On the other hand, Salon.com in a September 6, 2007 article entitled, Bush Knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction provides additional details of how Bush did in fact know that Saddam Hussein did not possess WMDs, but he acted in bad faith in rejecting evidence from his own CIA.  His mind was made up to invade Iraq, and facts that proved otherwise were rejected.

On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam's inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again.

Nor was the intelligence included in the National Intelligence Estimate of October 2002, which stated categorically that Iraq possessed WMD. No one in Congress was aware of the secret intelligence that Saddam had no WMD as the House of Representatives and the Senate voted, a week after the submission of the NIE, on the Authorization for Use of Military Force in Iraq. The information, moreover, was not circulated within the CIA among those agents involved in operations to prove whether Saddam had WMD.

So I get back to my original four points on why Bush went ahead with an invasion that was doomed to failure. If indeed Bush knew, then it would have been grounds for impeachment....taking America into war on a lie. But maybe that happens more often than not. I mention all of this because Americans have short memories, and for many right wing conservatives, their delusional memory of the events has not changed. Some absolutely still believe that Saddam Hussein possessed WMDs and they are out there hidden in the desert if we would just look harder.  That's another example of the cognitive dissonance that right wingers suffer from. They are incapable of absorbing facts that don't conform to their biases.

As a final note, I read this book review of Blood on our Hands this morning in Truthout. It takes a different persepective from that of the conventional wisdom of the mainstream media. I plan to read the whole book at some point when I have more time.

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