US & China meet to discuss trade that is free & fair.

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Forums > All Posts > US and China meet to discuss trade that is free and fair.

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2010-05-25 02:29 PM

LLBarry
Beverly, MA
Posts: 299

In the summit, of which about 200 US officials are attending, they are discussing trade, human rights, nuclear security and economic growth. But my question is what exactly is free and fair trade? And is that good for us?

2010-05-25 02:52 PM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 941

In my opinion, free trade is good for us. Free trade allows countries to become more specialized. When countries specialize, there is a more efficient use of resources overall. Of course this is basic economic theory. It also theorizes, that without tariffs, more cross-cultural interaction will take place and wages will begin to hit some sort of similar medium for the working class.

I like the idea of free trade. I do understand that some skilled workers will have to switch vocations, but we should be able to employ them somewhere.

2010-05-25 03:16 PM

LLBarry
Beverly, MA
Posts: 299

What about the fact that this most strongly affects the majority of people living in developing countries? Some 33% of the developing countries GDP are in agriculture that would be directly affected without some form of price controls; these currently developing cournties will start going backwards... Is this something that we are willing to deal with?

See UNCTAD Press Release, “UNCTAD Calls For Policy Changes to Avoid Throwing World Economy Into Recession,” 25 August 1998.

2010-05-25 06:10 PM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 941

From reading the report, it seems like this is a result of lack of free trade. Developing countries are being excluded from the global market through tightening trade restrictions. Free trade would actually help eliminate this. Developing countries would be able to afford to trade without being burdened by tariffs and trade taxes. The system, as it is set up now, benefits the richer countries.

NAFTA is a great example of free trade. It allows goods to tavel freely between Mexico, United States, and Canada. This has also created an interdependency for these three countries. If one country starts to slip, the others suffer too, but if one does well, it is a boon to the others.

Free trade could create a beneficial relationship between a developing country and a world power.

2010-05-27 04:39 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058

I will deviate from free trade and discuss fair trade. The term "fair trade" as discussed in Wikipidia is an "organized social movement and market-based approach that aims to help producers in developing countries obtain better trading conditions and promote sustainability. The movement advocates the payment of a higher price to producers as well as social and environmental standards. It focuses in particular on exports from developing countries to developed countries, most notably handicrafts, coffee, cocoa, sugar, tea, bananas, honey, cotton, wine, fresh fruit, chocolate and flowers."

"Implicit and often explicit in fair trade is a criticism of the current organization of international trade as being unfair...a response to the failure of conventional trade to deliver sustainable livelihoods and development opportunities to people in the poorest countries of the world."

"Some economists and think tanks see "fair trade" as a type of subsidy that impedes growth. Segments of the left criticize fair trade for not adequately challenging the current trading system." Fair trade, according to Brink Lindsey of the Cato Institute, is a "misguided attempt to make up for market failures in which one flawed pricing structure is replaced with another."

In principle, I think the concept of the fair trade movement is good. Wealthy countries cannot continue to exploit poorer countries without expecting some kind of backlash. Extremely poor countries become havens for anarchists and terrorist activity. Somalia and Eritrea are examples. Maybe that's an extreme view.

However, in practice, sometimes middlemen skim off the profits or its implentation is poorly conceived, which diminishes the intended impact of the fair trade movement, with little of the benefits trickling down to those at the bottom of the chain.

A fair trade movement needs oversight to be effective, and in particular that oversight should focus on some of the concerns raised by the Cato Institute. The movement needs expert knowledge and experience to make it more effective rather than to tear it down.

2011-05-05 01:34 PM

deist22
new port richey, FL
Posts: 25

I am 90. They said with age comes wisdom. Poor eyesight, it is said, also, comes with age. Okay. I offer this blurred wisdom. I am not too sure that free trade is good for the average American worker. I was an owner of a mail order, catalog house from l950 to l972. My catalogs contained about 220 items which I bought from AMERICAN factories such as Detecto scales, Royal typewriters, Rogers silverware, etc. Back then, Americans refused to buy any product NOT MADE IN AMERICA! I sold only TWO items NOT MADE IN AMERICA, German binoculars and Swiss watches. Now, we buy just about everything from China. China will BECOME THE NUMBER ONE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IN ABOUT FIVE YEARS! 60 years ago, we had millions of Americans working in American factories. Now, instead of buliding factories, we are building prisons. WE HAVE MORE INMATES PER CAPITA THAN ANY NATION IN THE WORLD! Communist China is hiring workers. We are hiring correction officers. When did buying from communist China become patriotic in the U.S.? I am old, maybe confused. I don't know. Maybe, just maybe, my vision is not as blurred as I wrote above.. Maybe, just maybe, I may be the LAST American patriot. I pray I am not. God bless.

2011-05-09 02:16 PM

deist22
new port richey, FL
Posts: 25

From l929 to l939, we had the "Great Depression". From 2007 to 20ll, we now have the "Great Recession". We recovered from the "Great Depression by building more and more factories in America 70 years ago. Now we have American money building more and more factories in China. Is it possible that "free trade" means "free to be unemployed" in America? I fail to see how creating more and more factory jobs in China is helping America. Is it any wonder China is going to be the the most powerful nation in the world in 4 years? Why are we helping a communist nation taking our place an Number one in the world? I have questions. Do you quislings have any answers? God bless.

2011-05-10 01:03 PM

deist22
new port richey, FL
Posts: 25

We have many problems in America. Free trade is one of them.How can we POSSIIBLY compete with China? The last time I checked Google, the average factory, Chinese worker was earning 54 cents an hour! I really believe that democracy is an aberation. If a politician in the U.S. dared to tell us the truth on how he/she will REALLY solve our many problems, he'she would have zero chance of being elected. WE INSIST OUR POLITICIANS LIE TO US AS TO HOW EASILY WE CAN SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS WITHOUT HURTING ANY VOTER. Is it any wonder we are heading for a dictatorship? The only question is will it be a socialist dictator or a fascistic one? If it is a fascistic dictator, he will round up all liberal Democrats such as me and all the other posters in this forum, and line us up against a wall and have us shot with bullets made in China by workers making 54 cents an hour! If it is a socialist dictator, all Americans who build factories in China will be walled and shot. I am 90. I am not afraid. I will continue to write. Like Nathan Hale, I regret I have but one life to give to America. My second regret is that I will not die as nobly as Hale. Nathan was hanged by an AMERICAN OR ENGLISH rope, not a bullet MADE IN CHINA!!! God bless.

2011-05-10 01:53 PM

deist22
new port richey, FL
Posts: 25

Free trade is not "free." One of the reasons why we have a l4.3 TRILLION DOLLAR U.S. DEBT IS BECAUSE WE BUY MUCH MORE FROM CHINA THAT CHINA BUYS FROM US. According to a recent AP report ,we have over 9 million Americans unemployed. How many Chinese workers are unemployed? I doubt it is anywhere near 9 million. Probably closer to 9 thousand than 9 million. There is another American problem. Millions of Americans were against Obama health care because they said they had "free" health insurance on their jobs. There is no such thing as "free" health insurance. Every item you buy from a pack of gum to a car has the cost of health insurance in the price of the pack of gum, the car and EVERY PRODUCT OR SERVICE YOU BUY. You are paying thousands of dollars yearly for the health insurance of millions of workers who produce these many products and services. Just recently the Republican Congress in Wash. voted to charge people on Medicare $6,000 for vouchers so they could give millionaires still another tax cut. This blunder may cost them the loss of many seats in Congress in 20l2. Strange. Why it is that in England, Japan, France, etc. old people are covered l00% FOR ALL THEIR HEALTH PROBLEM?. Are their health plans superior to ours? Why do the Republicans think they can rob from the middle-class and give to the rich and still win elections? Something is rotten and that something is not rotten in Denmark but is rotten in the good old U.S.A. God bless.

2011-05-10 04:27 PM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058

Diest22...you have made several good points. It's unfortunate that what would or should be good for America and Americans has been lost in a bunch of lies and misinformation. The Republicans have been very successful in distorting the message on just about everything to gain the upper hand. Republican attacks on the Affordable Care Act is just one example of how the lie repeated over and over again becomes mainstream thinking. As reported in the Daily Kos, the Republican plan to defund the Affordable Care Act could, according to the CBO, cost $6 billion in the next decade. The Affordable Care Act reduces the deficit, yet those facts don't matter to the Tea Party Republicans who hate all government programs.

But I agree that it could be even better...a "Medicare for all" program that takes out the middle men that don't contribute to health care except to skim off profits at the expense of the sick. A "Medicare for All" health care program would also be good for the competitiveness of business...but not the health care insurers who effectively control our politicians.

Regarding China and cheap labor, I think this article in AlterNet is just one example of the corporate world gone wild in seeking to exploit cheap labor around the world at the expense of American workers. At Chinese Taiwan factories building Apple and HP products, workers are expected to work 80-100 hours of overtime, are being forced to sign "no-suicide pacts," are being forced to stand 14 hours a day, and are crammed together in dormotories under squalid living conditions. Those conditions would be unacceptable to the American worker...sooooo....outsource the manufacturing to those countries where it is acceptable. They all do it because they have to do it to remain competitive with each other.

In my view, we have reached a tipping point in our society where the super rich and the bankers and other financial institutions, the military-industrial machine, and the multi-national companies have become so powerful that the middle class worker has been effectively disenfranchised from having a true voice in our so called democracy. In my view it is tending towards fascism.

2011-05-27 06:23 AM

John Mario
Not Selected
Posts: 20

I can answer the second question. It is not good for us unless China opens it's market to all our products. A trading deficit is not good for us at any time.

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