We need to stop abstinence only education.

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Forums > All Posts > We need to stop abstinence only education.

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05-24-2010, 04:52 PM

Zach F
Denton, TX
Posts: 941

There is no evidence that abstintence only education is effective at stopping teen pregnancy. There is actually some evidence that it is actually counter-productive. Human beings by nature are sexual animals, it is how our species survived all these years.

Can anyone think of any good pros for abstinence only education?

05-27-2010, 08:11 AM

Schmidt
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1058

Ryan Dunn, a student at Bishop Blanchet High School, a Catholic school, in Seattle, ran an article in the school newspaper entitled "Of the Catholic Church and High-School Sex." (dated May 26, 2010). Dunn's essay is probably indicative of the frustrations of many of the young people in this country regarding sex education and access to contraceptives, but particularly those attending Catholic schools. I won't paraphrase it. It is worth reading in it's entirety in the Reality Check website.

05-20-2012, 01:27 PM

ssrocks
Palmetto, FL
Posts: 1

Abstinence is a choice however, the reality is, very few will practice it. I am all for sex eduction in schools. The more educated one is, the higher the probability of making the right choice, when the time comes.

05-20-2012, 04:47 PM

Guy Dwyer
Seattle, WA
Posts: 101

Zach F Wrote: There is no evidence that abstintence only education is effective at stopping teen pregnancy. There is actually some evidence that it is actually counter-productive. Human beings by nature are sexual animals, it is how our species survived all these years.

Can anyone think of any good pros for abstinence only education?

You are correct that there is no valid evidence that "abstinence only" education is effective at stopping teen pregnancy, and there is indeed evidence that it is counterproductive.

I read an article that makes some good points about the issue, and let me quote a section:

"Many patriarchal religious authorities have not understood the truth and were ignorant of divine intent, and our idea of morality with regard to sex and marriage has consequently been distorted. And the notion that sex is 'the original sin' is the worst example of that.

This is an issue because most people do not realize the influence that right-wing conservative religious leaders have had on society, and especially on government. They’ve been pushing us backwards instead of progressing forward, and they’ve pretty much had their way in many instances and in many places around the world.

For example, in America, despite the fact that about 73 percent of the American people believe that all children can and should benefit from comprehensive sex education, and that if teens are sexually active they should have access to contraceptives, the Christian Right has aggressively pushed and imposed political legislation overruling the majority. They’ve controlled Congress, state legislatures, and local school boards, especially with regard to what our children are being taught (or not taught) about sex in school.

Consequently, in 1996, as part of the 'welfare reform' program, Congress voted to spend $250 million over five years to develop an 'abstinence-only' curriculum. Schools are eligible for these funds if they teach that: 1) sexual abstinence has psychological and health benefits; 2) contraceptives are prone to failure and negative consequences; 3) sexual activity outside marriage is abnormal and likely to have harmful psychological and physical effects; and 4) out-of-wedlock child bearing is likely to harm the child, the parents, and society.

To make matters worse, during the last ten years, many schools have been distributing 'standard guidelines' built around the abstinence-only curriculum. The trouble is, those 'guidelines' were published by a right-wing partisan religious group, and their literature contains misinformation and thinly disguised puritanical propaganda throughout. It completely avoids teaching young people what they really should know about sex."

That quote was taken from one section called Commentary On Sex, but the article is on The Man-Woman Relationship. It goes on to explain why the "abstinence only" approach is counterproductive, and it contains a lot of information that makes it well worth the read, I think.

05-20-2012, 11:12 PM

that guy in Arizona
Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 158

Guy:

Tennessee just passed a sex education bill that defined kissing and hand holding as
"gateways to sexual activity". Like a number of other states, Tennessee's "sex education" classes focus ONLY on abstinence. As you might suspect, the state of Tennessee has one of the highest teen birth rates in the country.

In case you haven't seen my thoughts on THAT topic, the link below provides more information:

http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2012/04/i-want-to-hold-your-hand.html

05-21-2012, 09:41 AM

libertycitizen
Magalia, CA

Account Frozen

Posts: 112

Flagstaff, Now this is an example of "extremes". No matter how many laws that are passed kids are still going to have sex. Why? because they look at sex as nothing more than getting together and riding bikes. I get many teens in 14 and 15 years old that think nothing of standing in front of me and chatting with their friends as to how they had sex behind the school or how they share boyfriends or have sex while smoking pot. So what is lacking with these kids? A firm sense of morality and self respect. Sex has been degraded to an everyday activity that is fun and the "thing to do". Abstinence programs won't work, sex education just shows them how to have sex with more safety from pregnancy, which by the way, many do not care about safety. The government can't legislate morality and self respect. Its the parents job to do that. And because so many parents lack morality it isn't being taught in the home. And where it is taught in the home it remains a non issue to teens because the world tells them differently. and it is their peers and the social climate that they are listening to.

05-21-2012, 10:31 PM

Guy Dwyer
Seattle, WA
Posts: 101

libertycitizen Wrote: Flagstaff, Now this is an example of "extremes". No matter how many laws that are passed kids are still going to have sex. Why? because they look at sex as nothing more than getting together and riding bikes. I get many teens in 14 and 15 years old that think nothing of standing in front of me and chatting with their friends as to how they had sex behind the school or how they share boyfriends or have sex while smoking pot. So what is lacking with these kids? A firm sense of morality and self respect. Sex has been degraded to an everyday activity that is fun and the "thing to do". Abstinence programs won't work, sex education just shows them how to have sex with more safety from pregnancy, which by the way, many do not care about safety. The government can't legislate morality and self respect. Its the parents job to do that. And because so many parents lack morality it isn't being taught in the home. And where it is taught in the home it remains a non issue to teens because the world tells them differently. and it is their peers and the social climate that they are listening to.

Well, you are right that abstinence only programs don't work. But it is simply not true that sex education "just shows them how to have sex with more safety from pregnancy," as you claim. It does do that, of course. But much research shows that comprehensive sex education reduces sexual activity as well as reduce teen pregnancy rates.

You are right that morality should be taught in the home, but you are wrong that government cannot legislate morality. Most of our laws are based on morality as universally defined (that is, not specific to one religion but agreed upon by all). And public schools can indeed teach moral principles as long as they are universally accepted.

In my view it is no coincidence that during the last thirty years as the "religious right" has tried to impose their idea of religious morality upon society, the "world" has snubbed its nose at them. That's not because the "world" is bad. It's because most people rebel against and reject the idea of God that the "religious right" sells. And rightly so. It's a false image of God as a rigid, punitive, heartless Patriarch that does not honor the female aspect of the true God.

"Wisdom is beneficent and kind. She is the aura of the power of God, the radiance of the eternal Divine Light, a spotless mirror of God. She renews all things, and passing into holy souls from age to age, She produces friends of God and prophets. She is firm, but Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all Her paths are peace. She is a Tree of Life to them that lay hold upon Her. And Wisdom is far better than weapons of war." -- Solomon

"Abstinence only" is a patriarchal idea created because of the lack of true Wisdom.

05-22-2012, 12:09 PM

libertycitizen
Magalia, CA

Account Frozen

Posts: 112

Dwyer, What is your definition of morality? And where does morality come from? And what does it mean "universally accepted"? Because in your post you stated that government can legislate morality but in the next paragraph you criticize the right for imposing religious morality upon society. Then you call God names and desecrate him, then you quote the bible. What?

05-22-2012, 02:02 PM

Former Member
Not Selected

Account Frozen

Posts: 6

This Post has been Removed by Moderators. Please note that some members may have replied to this post later in this topic thread before moderators decided to remove it.

05-22-2012, 03:41 PM

Veronica
Not Selected
Posts: 205

HERE IS an EXCERPT from that NEWS ARTICLE:

From: Timothy Rogers, Salisbury, NC

"I’m the father of this student. My son and two other students in this class have been attacked daily from this teacher for their conservative political views. I told him to stay out of the political conversations, but she said that if he didn’t participate he would receive a bad grade. This teacher is politically ignorant! I teach my sons to respect other peoples political opinion, but she has no right shoving her opinions down his throat! I have had to remove him from North Rowan High School & will enroll him at RCCC to finish his education. I am outraged at her unprofessional manner. THIS IS NOT OVER! I will try to contact Rush Limbaugh this week."

----- The problem is that the "conservative" students felt compelled to tell the teacher their opinions from the right-wing point of view. They do not know those are not ALWAYS CORRECT. The teacher may have gotten a bit defensive more than she should, but I also suspect they had been giving her a hard time for several days. And THEN people tend to lose their temper. BUT THE BIG CLUE to the whole scenario is the last sentence quoted:

The FATHER said "This is NOT OVER -- I am going to contact RUSH LIMBAUGH this week."

HA HA HA --- Like Rush Limbaugh is any kind of authority on FACTS? Honesty? Education?

That is the biggest "hoot" of the day. As you should know, Rush Limbaugh was born in Cape Girardeau, MO -- his Daddy was a lawyer & owned part of the airport & radio station,
so Rushie was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Since VietNam War began, boys of a certain age were in danger of the draft, to be sent over to combat. (not voluntary).
Most boys avoid the draft by getting college deferment (means going to college can keep you out of the Army). So Rushie went off to college, but due to using dope & refusing to show citations in term papers (to show his sources) Rushie dropped (or flunked) out of college. But THIS lost his military deferment
so he would have to go to War. WHAT TO DO?
The family doctor found something for him to use to stay out of combat -- a butt cyst. It was good enough. So Rushie got to polish his skills in radio rhetoric. He luckily was born with a golden voice, & soon began to get noticed by an ever-growing audience that loved hearing his extremist views, done with a sarcastic humor. Ditto-heads never question
what he says & swallow it all whole. He is a BIGOT, a LIAR, & PROPAGANDA peddler for the far right wing. He was a Doper, Draft Dodger & Drop-Out, who made good. He gets paid over $14 million a year for his broadcasts, that have gone on unimpeded for 27 yrs. Recently,
he was boycotted for sexual comments he made about a female student testifying about some insurance coverage for birth control. Calling
her a slut & a whore was nothing new for Rush
who never did show "good taste" in discussion
--so of course, he should be called up by the student's father to "fix" the situation of classroom debates over Prez candidates. (If Rush was the moderator, they would all be up on "pornographic" charges). HA HA

05-22-2012, 06:42 PM

libertycitizen
Magalia, CA

Account Frozen

Posts: 112

Bela,, those who claim to tolerate everything are intolerant of ideas that come from perspectives other than their own, especially when those ideas are rooted in conservative politics or evangelical faith. It seems like a God vs. government battle has already been launched. What people with this mind set aren't seeing is that our country is in big trouble and they are blindly backing the very man that is going to take us down the sewer hole. I have family in Europe. They yell at me all the time, what is happening in your country, don't you understand that America is the last country left that represented freedom and now your great country is being taken over by a socialist/communist leader. My family knows what it is like to live under that rule for they lived behind the iron curtain. Its one thing for liberals to attack us adults but when they resort to attacking our children that's when I have to look at these people as deluded and mean.

05-22-2012, 08:27 PM

Guy Dwyer
Seattle, WA
Posts: 101

libertycitizen Wrote: Dwyer, What is your definition of morality? And where does morality come from? And what does it mean "universally accepted"? Because in your post you stated that government can legislate morality but in the next paragraph you criticize the right for imposing religious morality upon society. Then you call God names and desecrate him, then you quote the bible. What?

LibCitizen,

There are certain moral values that are universally accepted. Perhaps the most fundamental and basic one is what the author of the articles I cite calls "The Universal Divine Imperative: Treat all others as you would want to be treated if you were them."

On the All Faiths Coalition for Peace, Freedom and Justice site, it points out that the divine imperative is at the heart of all genuine religions and spiritual teachings. It is the overarching commandment, and the summation of all spiritual wisdom and advice.

The great Jewish sage Hillel the Elder taught it as the golden rule and stated that it is a summation of the Torah, Then Jesus taught it and agreed with Hillel. Thus Jews are supposed to be taught that we should not do to others what is hurtful to our self. Christians are supposed to be taught to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And Muslims are supposed to be taught that no one is a true believer in Allah until he loves for all others what he loves for himself.

Similarly, Buddhists are taught that we should treat others as we treat our self. Hindus are taught that we should not do unto others anything that, which if it were done to us, would cause us pain. The Taoists are taught that we should regard our neighbor's gain as our own gain, and our neighbor's loss as our own loss.

These spiritual and moral values are at the very core of all genuine religions, and they are all about having love for your neighbor and fellow man, and about peace, freedom, honesty, humility, tolerance, forgiveness, compassion, charity, and even pacifism.

Much of humanity suffers now because some Christians, Muslims and Jews have lost sight of these truths, because it has been overshadowed by the ancient, outmoded, self-serving idea that God is on the side of a particular group of people or religion or race or nation, and against others.

The rest of your comment reveals your tendency to try to twist my words.

Most people would understand I was saying that all good governments enact moral laws of the land, because that's what good governments do. And, according to studies and research, most people would agree with me that the "religious right" has been pushing a false image of God as a rigid, punitive, heartless Patriarch that does not honor the female aspect of the true God.

I even quoted Solomon, who wrote: "Wisdom is beneficent and kind. She is the aura of the power of God, the radiance of the eternal Divine Light, a spotless mirror of God. She renews all things, and passing into holy souls from age to age, She produces friends of God and prophets. She is firm, but Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all Her paths are peace. She is a Tree of Life to them that lay hold upon Her. And Wisdom is far better than weapons of war."

In spite of that, you deliberately try to deceive people by claiming that I "call God names and desecrate" God. That is simply not true.

God is the Holy One and Savior, and as Isaiah wrote, God "said" (speaking of the Messiah): "He is my servant, and besides me there is no Savior."

As Moses wrote: "God is not a man, nor a son of man."

As King David wrote: "There is no salvation in a son of man."

As as Jesus of Nazareth said to his disciples: "You have not heard the voice of God or seen God's shape at any time." And "God is greater than I."

Frankly, you have been misled by "religious" Theocrats who want to rule in the name of religion. But they are the hypocrites that Jesus foresaw, who claim to do "many wonderful works in the name of the Lord," when they actually "work iniquity." They are the hypocritical "goats" that Jesus said would be rebuked by the modern son of man.

IF you call yourself LibertyCitizen because you went to Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, or were influenced by what they teach, you received a false education in the misguided theology of Christian Apologetics.

05-23-2012, 04:50 AM

Veronica
Not Selected
Posts: 205

I am afraid that the conservatives in the US are brain-washed by 50 yrs of propaganda that's been dispensed on thousands of radio broadcasts, & newsletters, & in the pulpits. The GOP has been taken over by the extremist right wing that started in 1958, by Robt Welch, & their orgn is called the John Birch Society. It was started by 12 Republican millionaires, & their whole agenda was to "takeover the Republican Party" & to USE IT to takeover the whole US Govt. The leader Robt Welch NEVER believed that the US should be a "democracy" so he set out to destroy it. His orgn stretched all over the US & put up many political candidates & Presidents --
like Barry Goldwater who ran in 1964. They also backed Richard Nixon & Reagan (all GOP).

Their members began to infiltrate churches in the early 1960's, to manipulate the message coming from the pulpit. (In many churches, the congregation can get rid of the preacher if they disapprove loudly enough of his actions). And Birchers were asked to schmooze up to the minister to directly affect what his sermon is about.

The Birch assignments were to join several churches, get active, make big donations till you have position of influence in the church & among other members. Then use all your power to get rid of any preacher who says any "liberal" ideas, or preaches the true message of Jesus Christ. It was amazing because 20 yrs later, you could hardly find any church in America that was not spouting the right-wing Birch Line, instead of the straight pure gospel of Jesus Christ.

I KNOW people who did that, how they did all their assignments. They worked at American Opinion book stores, drove their GOP senator around to meetings, distributed tons of JBS propaganda (pamphlets etc) & got involved in elections. Infiltrated 2 churches to double their influence in the sermons being spoken.

I also have 2 copies of the "Blue Book" the JBS manual for members sitting beside me. I use for a reference when discussing some of their techniques & subversive methods of trying to takeover the Govt of America, & to destroy "democracy". They have actually been extremely effective, since now our nation is on the brink of extinction. To WIN vs United States, they knew they had to "bankrupt" us, & all these stupid Iraq, Afghanistan & all other wars have DONE that. So now, we see the "enemy within" has virtually won. But the interesting part is still to be seen.

When all the good little Birchers find out what they have destroyed was the Last Best Hope of Mankind. The founders worried about people who would undermine all their best of intentions, for Greed. Would SELL OUT our Freedoms for a few pieces of gold. Look at the GOP today -- Greed fills their hearts & their minds & their souls. They would kill their own grandma for a few gold bars. Or the gold in her teeth. No compassion for any one on the earth. The heartless, mindless, & evil clones of Rush Limberger, marching off
to war. With their glocks, AK47's, mini-14 & laws rockets. Well, it was such a strange coalition that was used to take down this 236 year govt (of the people, by the people for the people). Garden Variety drop-outs, brain-washed from birth, from the mindless to the morons. To robots. To ditto-heads.

A strange thing happens if you brain-wash someone over & over, till all that washing shrinks the brain, & shrinks it smaller & smaller, till the person has NO BRAINS. Or such a tiny brain, it really can't function very well as an intellect.

THAT EXPLAINS IT, why we see thousands of these mindless Bozo's at a TeaParty rally.
That's enough for tonight. I'm not trying to tread on anyone's toes, but watching this go on for 36 yrs makes a person really angry.

05-23-2012, 05:32 AM

Kosko
Portland, TX
Posts: 1018

libertycitizen Wrote: Bela,, those who claim to tolerate everything are intolerant of ideas that come from perspectives other than their own, especially when those ideas are rooted in conservative politics or evangelical faith. It seems like a God vs. government battle has already been launched. What people with this mind set aren't seeing is that our country is in big trouble and they are blindly backing the very man that is going to take us down the sewer hole. I have family in Europe. They yell at me all the time, what is happening in your country, don't you understand that America is the last country left that represented freedom and now your great country is being taken over by a socialist/communist leader. My family knows what it is like to live under that rule for they lived behind the iron curtain. Its one thing for liberals to attack us adults but when they resort to attacking our children that's when I have to look at these people as deluded and mean.

We're currently working on an advanced moderation system. And have been slow in moderating some posts as of late.

As per the forum rules, conservative views must be ground in reality and not demagoguery (think David Frum). So calling Democrats communists gets you banned (please read what Communism is). As well as emotional rants against liberals.

05-23-2012, 11:54 AM

WovenGems
Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 6

Humans are curious by nature. This is why absex doesn't work. We are the wrong species for that to work on. And all the wishful thinking isn't going to change that.

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