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Finding a Punishment to fit the Crime…

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Sexual harassment is the newest in a long line of divisive and emotional topics consuming our time and detracting from the Tax Reform debate and health care debate and foreign policy debate and environmental debate and just about everything else debate.

    We’ve gone from Bill Cosby to Harvey Weinstein to Lewis C.K. to Ray Moore to Al Franken and now are even re-litigating Bill Clinton’s Monika Lewinsky scandal. It’s like a multi-episode soap opera with lots of dirty details to titillate our minds nightly on MSNBC and CNN.

    Al Franken owns up to his indiscretions and apologizes. Donald Trump denies all of his allegations and is therefore free to condemn Franken’s acts.

    Replying to a question about the apparent hypocrisy, Sarah Huckabee Sanders justified her boss’s actions: "I think in one case specifically Sen. Franken has admitted wrongdoing and the president hasn't," she said. "I think that's a very clear distinction."

    In other words, never admit you are wrong, and it becomes the unprovable fact.

    Roy Moore is following the Trump model of denying everything emphatically. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Liars all of them. They have almost four weeks to solidify their base of evangelical supporters before the election.

    Kirsten Gillibrand meanwhile has decided to get into the publicity game by re-litigating Bill Clinton’s romp with Monika Lewinsky saying he should have resigned. Democrats are miffed at Gillibrand pointing out that she took the Clinton’s money and support in winning Hillary’s old Senate seat, and that Clinton had already paid a steep price for his actions.

    I certainly believe that they are all guilty to varying degrees, and the media criticism against them is highly warranted. But less face it. Trump and Moore will never be litigated in the court of law for their sexual harassment crimes. Maybe some more women victims will come out to enhance the cases against them, but will it make any difference?

    Much of this being tried and sensationalized in the media without the kind of proof that would stand up in a jury trial. It is now consuming us. It goes on and on…

    Al Franken (if it is his only black mark) deserves to have his apology taken for what it is…a sincere act of contrition and honesty. However, many Democrats including some running for office in his home state are not satisfied saying Franken should resign. He will be tried again and again.

    For those liberals and many Republicans, Al Franken, is a monster and doesn’t deserve to be a Senator.

    Really!

    To be clear, there is no equivalency of Franken’s deed versus those of Roy Moore or those of Donald Trump.

    Let’s move onto other critical issues and let the respective constituents of Minnesota and Alabama decide for themselves.

    Thoughts?

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Sorry for the rambling post. I am frustrated by the disproportionate amount of coverage of sexual harassment cases when the tax reform plan should be front and center. Economic journalists like Stephanie Ruhle should be going all out to educate the public on the perils of the tax packages. She does that to some extent, but mostly I see her angry as ever about the various sexual harassment cases.

    It's not that these sexual harassment issues are not important, but if the Senate Tax plan gets approved, it has far more repercussions on the poor than re-litigating Bill Clinton or interviewing Democratic women who want to see Al Franken removed from the Senate. Emotions trump critical thinking again.

    But I suppose...sex sells. Economic policies do not.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    The flood gates are now open. Look for more sexual harassment cases to come into the light, forget the mission of furthering congressional agenda for now.

    Franken's groping occurred before he became a politician, but his behavior is still inexcusable, as is Trump's or anyone else's for that matter, I seem to recall me writing about vetting candidates for the democratic party that didn't have any skeletons in their closets. Are there any?

    Moore's situation is more worse, he is accused of sexual contact with minors. That's worse than groping an adult, but both are equally undesirable.

    Republicans are falling all over themselves trying to get a piece of legislation passed in 2017, anything.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    The Franken thing was put together by the GOP; look at this picture ; she ( the victim) looks like she does not object.

    foto van Lizzette Munoz.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    What Franken did was bad. Poor judgment. The victim was in her 30's and was not forced to go further than an awkward kiss. An immature photo was the final thing.

    With Moore we had an older man chasing multiple teenagers and trying to get far more. The Alabama victims were not as experienced in the world.

    Too many don't want limitations. The wealthy men of power knew this was all bad but thought it would go away and be a non issue. Who could should or would have told them that they can't have what they want.

    Admit to the problem then it can be addressed.

    This is far from politics alone. Entitled white men wanting more than they deserve or are entitled to is the heart of the matter. I pray for strength and fairness for all that are considering the really tough path. Public disdain against these vile actions are an overdue and badly needed first step.

    Partisan politics is a powerful ugly thing for people without a moral base.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    TJ Wrote:

    What Franken did was bad. Poor judgment. The victim was in her 30's and was not forced to go further than an awkward kiss. An immature photo was the final thing.

    With Moore we had an older man chasing multiple teenagers and trying to get far more. The Alabama victims were not as experienced in the world.

    Too many don't want limitations. The wealthy men of power knew this was all bad but thought it would go away and be a non issue. Who could should or would have told them that they can't have what they want.

    Admit to the problem then it can be addressed.

    This is far from politics alone. Entitled white men wanting more than they deserve or are entitled to is the heart of the matter. I pray for strength and fairness for all that are considering the really tough path. Public disdain against these vile actions are an overdue and badly needed first step.

    Partisan politics is a powerful ugly thing for people without a moral base.

    No T.J. it was all an bad joke; she was not asleep but knew; look at the picture I posted; they just had fun and she played the part. The picture in the plane was dug up by the GOP on instructions of Trump. No wonder Franken admitted and gave apologies, because he knew very well that the whole thing was just for fun and she even hugged him on that same trip; that why she she so quickly forgave him. The "media" just took Trump's bait ; that's all.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Sorry for the rambling post. I am frustrated by the disproportionate amount of coverage of sexual harassment cases when the tax reform plan should be front and center. Economic journalists like Stephanie Ruhle should be going all out to educate the public on the perils of the tax packages. She does that to some extent, but mostly I see her angry as ever about the various sexual harassment cases.

    It's not that these sexual harassment issues are not important, but if the Senate Tax plan gets approved, it has far more repercussions on the poor than re-litigating Bill Clinton or interviewing Democratic women who want to see Al Franken removed from the Senate. Emotions trump critical thinking again.

    But I suppose...sex sells. Economic policies do not.

    You and me both.

    I'm also frustrated with the false equivalency Republicans and the media are so quick to put forward. They are lumping in pedophilia and rape accusations with fondling. I'm not suggesting that what Franken did wasn't wrong, but there are different levels here.

    One person is accused of giving a woman a kiss she didn't consent to. He apologized and said he will fully cooperate with a Senate Ethics investigation into his behavior.

    Another person is accused of being a pedophile who forced himself on upwards of nine different women. He victim shames the women and accused every single one of being part of a mass conspiracy to bring down his Senate campaign.

    Why does the media continue to allow right wing pundits to talk about these two vastly different scenarios like they are one in the same?


    I also agree this is an unfortunate side-show that puts the tax debate on the back burner. In that respect, I'm sure Republicans are quite happy having this whole Moore charade front and center because the tax debate gets less coverage. The less people hear about this horrible tax bill the less they will be focused on what it will do to them.

    It's really sad.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Here another piece of proof, who is the culprit???? Wake up Democrats; this "girl" is not what you think. Franken did nothing; she did provoke it. The media finally posted the "hug" and now I post this. IT IS AN TOTAL SETUP. Wake up.

    00:11

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    In other words, never admit you are wrong, and it becomes the unprovable fact.

    Quick reply.

    trump forumula: always deny, always deflected, always double down, and always turn the tables on the accusers.

    From trump's perspective handling it the way Al Franken did (taking responsibility and apologizing) is a sign of weakness and a sign of a loser. For trump, everything is about winning; sexual harassment is simply a tool to be used to win (control\dominate\intimidate women), so there nothing to apologize for; if women don't like it, they can go home and raise kids.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Several past presidents all have been known (or heavily rumored ) to have had flings with women outside of their marriages including Warren Harding, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and more recently Bill Clinton. Somehow affairs are not held as strongly against presidents probably because they have the power... or maybe a good segment of the public is also cheating on their spouses and it's a subject that they just as soon went away.

    Donald Trump's sexual harassment of women including his former wives is largely given a pass probably for the same reasons Bill Clinton was given a pass before he was elected.

    In any case, Roy Moore's charges are seemingly more serious because he went after teenage girls. He married his wife, Kayla, when he was 38 and she was 24. It's been reported that Kayla was a classmate of Beverly Nelson Young, one of the women coming forward saying she was harassed by Moore when she was 16 in high school.

    Kayla had been divorced and had a young daughter by her previous marriage when she married Roy Moore. We don't know the full story yet.

    They will all be tried in the court of public opinion, but I'm very skeptical that the Alabama Christian right will do the right thing. I would bet Moore defeats Doug Jones in a close election, and he then rubs his victory in Mitch McConnell's face.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Dutch Wrote:

    Here another piece of proof, who is the culprit???? Wake up Democrats; this "girl" is not what you think. Franken did nothing; she did provoke it. The media finally posted the "hug" and now I post this. IT IS AN TOTAL SETUP. Wake up.

    00:11

    It remains to be seen if there is a pattern to Franken behavior. Given that he supports an investigation suggests he does not believe there are other women out there.

    Also in his apology he made a clarification that he remembered it differently. Not sure what to make of that statement.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Dutch Wrote:

    Here another piece of proof, who is the culprit???? Wake up Democrats; this "girl" is not what you think. Franken did nothing; she did provoke it. The media finally posted the "hug" and now I post this. IT IS AN TOTAL SETUP. Wake up.

    00:11

    She's a naughty girl, ain't she? kind of like a Miley Cyrus twerk, yes?

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I'm glad at least one person (Dock) woke up on the site; this "girl" which Franken teased was not what you think; she loved rubbing her butt into some "guy". Don't forget it are not always the guys; ever visited the "red light" district in Amsterdam?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    wwjd Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:

    Here another piece of proof, who is the culprit???? Wake up Democrats; this "girl" is not what you think. Franken did nothing; she did provoke it. The media finally posted the "hug" and now I post this. IT IS AN TOTAL SETUP. Wake up.

    00:11

    It remains to be seen if there is a pattern to Franken behavior. Given that he supports an investigation suggests he does not believe there are other women out there.

    Also in his apology he made a clarification that he remembered it differently. Not sure what to make of that statement.

    I doubt if there is an pattern; he used to be an "comic"; no "wwwjd" . Certain "lady's" know how to provoke things, at least "Dock" understands such.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Dutch Wrote: I'm glad at least one person (Dock) woke up on the site; this "girl" which Franken teased was not what you think; she loved rubbing her butt into some "guy". Don't forget it are not always the guys; ever visited the "red light" district in Amsterdam?

    I've never been to Amsterdam Dutch, but when my 1/2 brother and I were in our early 20's, we'd try to hit the hot places in Chicago. There weren't any window shows, but there were ladies in the bars, nightclubs, saloons. That I know of during our time, there were not any brothels in Chicago, but there were years ago. And there was the strip or red light district in Chicago and it's suburbs, just cruising around the city and burbs, you could find them, and probably still can.

    I asked my wife this morning, hey, you know that woman who accused Al Franken? She said yes. Then I showed her the video in the link you posted, after watching it, her jaw dropped.

    Thanks for post it Dutch.