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The decline of the US

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  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Right now we have the biggest mess we ever had in this country. Looking at all the missteps in politics and human life it can't be worse.

    1) The Mueller investigation

    2) The mental patient in the White House

    3) Racism pops up its ugly head

    4) Ultra right fanatism

    5) An Republican government running of the cliff

    6) Democrats who are infighting and not organized

    7) The Donna Brazil ; Clinton money grabbing story does not help the Dem's either.

    8) Bullying N. Korea

    9) Billionaires influence and corrupting the country ( like the Mercers)

    10) Fake news; even the Russians have Facebook, Twitter, Google power/influence

    11) Corrupt elections because of super PAC's and lots of "money" and corruption all over.

    12) People in positions where they should not be, like: Pruitt, Carson, Kelly, Pence, Sessions, Miller, Tillerson, as well electing cowboys with six shooters who believe God caused 9/11 as well plenty of other weirdo's who are popping up all over under Trump's reign.

    13) No longer accepting world wide agreements, like Climate, nuclear, trade ( Nafta and others)

    14) Religious fanatics getting their way with this government.

    I'm forgetting a lot of points, but this country is going down the drain in a hurry

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Right now we have the biggest mess we ever had in this country. Looking at all the missteps in politics and human life it can't be worse.

    I'd suggest the Civil War was the "biggest mess we ever had in this country."

    A distant second would be the Jim Crow era where black people were killed for sport with impunity.

    This era may make the top 10, but there's been plenty of crazy and dangerous times in our nations short history.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Right now we have the biggest mess we ever had in this country. Looking at all the missteps in politics and human life it can't be worse.

    I'd suggest the Civil War was the "biggest mess we ever had in this country."

    A distant second would be the Jim Crow era where black people were killed for sport with impunity.

    This era may make the top 10, but there's been plenty of crazy and dangerous times in our nations short history.

    I doubt it; the situation now is quite a bit different ; what you mention were only "internal" disputes on this "island", which did not involve the whole world. I guess in the Jim Crow area they did not have N. Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Mali, etc. where Americans play their games, nor "nukes" or an "idiot" who can just push a "button" to kill millions in one go, nor Nafta, nor air pollution; nor "healhtcare" problems; nor "billionaires" who "dictate" with their money. You can't compare those times to today, unless Jim Crow had an computer and internet. Wake up Jared!
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: I doubt it; the situation now is quite a bit different ; what you mention were only "internal" disputes on this "island", which did not involve the whole world. I guess in the Jim Crow area they did not have N. Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Mali, etc. where Americans play their games, nor "nukes" or an "idiot" who can just push a "button" to kill millions in one go, nor Nafta, nor air pollution; nor "healhtcare" problems; nor "billionaires" who "dictate" with their money. You can't compare those times to today, unless Jim Crow had an computer and internet. Wake up Jared!

    If world events are what you're basing it off of then world events are what I'll discuss. (Although I will point out that the title of your thread is about the decline of the US and every single one of your 14 bullet points had to do with domestic issues.)

    The Nazi's killed 6 million Jews and 5 million "gay people, priests, gypsies, people with mental or physical disabilities, communists, trade unionists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, anarchists, Poles and other Slavic peoples, and resistance fighters." That's 11 million human beings.

    The Soviet's killed between 15 and 20 million people in Gulag's and scores more were killed during Stalin's reign.

    The Ottoman Empire slaughtered 1.5 million Armenians between 1915 and 1918.

    Pol Pot ordered the deaths of 2 million Cambodians between 1975 and 1979.

    The Rwandan government killed 800,000 Tutsis in 1994.

    The Japanese Imperial Army raped and murdered 300,000 civilians in China's former capital city of Nanking in 1937. That was half of the entire city population.

    Shall I go on? I only brought up the 20th Century, but I'm happy to provide dozens or hundreds more mass causality events throughout the centuries that make what's going on today look like child's play.

    Look - I know it's easy to convince ourselves that the world has never been worse off than it is now. 24/7 "news" channels love to make you think that it is because it keeps us glued to our television sets. But the fact of the matter is that our country and the world have seen far (and I mean FAR) worse times than now.

    It's ok to be mad as hell about Donald, but facts matter.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Typical; just like Trump; point fingers at others if you don't have an defense. We were talking about what is happening internally in this country now with the mess at present; compared to the past IN THIS COUNTRY. Not what the world did around us. You should know better. Throw in the kitchen sink as well please. Hitler did not live here I presume!!

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    My defense are the facts. Our country (and the world) has seen far worse times. That’s a fact. You may not believe it or like it, but it’s still a fact.

    You started this thread with 14 bullet points about domestic issues as your “proof” that this is the worst time our country has ever been in. I disagreed and explained that our country has been through far worse. You then turned it to international events and I explained the world has been through far worse.

    Do we have a wholly unqualified person leading our country? Yes, we do. Does that one fact make it so this is the worst position our country has ever been in? No, it does not.

  • Independent
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    The “far worse” has caused what we have now.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    lonely bird Wrote: The “far worse” has caused what we have now.
    I don’t disagree. Multiple factors brought us Donald, but my point is that we’ve had plenty of trials and tribulations as a country before, but we’ve always worked out way out of them and I’m hopeful we can work our way out of this one too.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Jared; You stick your head in the sand as a real patriot. Even if Trump gets tossed out we get Pence; that solves a lot. Still we maintain all our corruption in everything, like elections with Super Pac's and billionaires who influence it. Let alone that we don't do gerrymandering or other tricks to stop voters from voting. "Money" is the culprit in this country. That will be its downfall. How do you tend to undo the damage from the GOP done to healthcare etc., let alone racism, polarization, evangelical meddling in peoples lives. You should also realize that the DNC is in the tubes and has lost its backbone; you of course blame Bernie; but Hillary was too arrogant as well her husband had a bad record. No she was no sweetheart either.

    The DNC was broke she helped out and demanded something in return which backfired.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Dutch Wrote:

    Right now we have the biggest mess we ever had in this country. Looking at all the missteps in politics and human life it can't be worse.

    1) The Mueller investigation

    2) The mental patient in the White House

    3) Racism pops up its ugly head

    4) Ultra right fanatism

    5) An Republican government running of the cliff

    6) Democrats who are infighting and not organized

    7) The Donna Brazil ; Clinton money grabbing story does not help the Dem's either.

    8) Bullying N. Korea

    9) Billionaires influence and corrupting the country ( like the Mercers)

    10) Fake news; even the Russians have Facebook, Twitter, Google power/influence

    11) Corrupt elections because of super PAC's and lots of "money" and corruption all over.

    12) People in positions where they should not be, like: Pruitt, Carson, Kelly, Pence, Sessions, Miller, Tillerson, as well electing cowboys with six shooters who believe God caused 9/11 as well plenty of other weirdo's who are popping up all over under Trump's reign.

    13) No longer accepting world wide agreements, like Climate, nuclear, trade ( Nafta and others)

    14) Religious fanatics getting their way with this government.

    I'm forgetting a lot of points, but this country is going down the drain in a hurry

    Donna Brazile didn't help democrats either, but remember this all you Bernie fans, the DNC let Sanders into the DNC, they didn't have to, and he didn't do any fund raising for the DNC, just himself through private small donors, only Mrs. Clinton raised funds for the DNC, because the DNC was basically broke, flat, busted.

    Sanders didn't help democrats one iota.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Yes Dock; that is what you get if you stick to antique 1800's laws; an corrupt election systems and not "vetting" candidates etc. only tricks and lies.

    Can't they do anything WITHOUT money involved in this country; like elections.

    It does not seem such complex system in other civilized countries where they have an parlimentary system which works without billions of money to elect qualified people. The stupidity here is to stick to an old British system and tamper with it; that is why you need an zillion lawyers to "manipulate" and "explain" the laws here. Nothing is straightforward.

    "MONEY CORRUPTS"

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    It takes dollars to run television ads and to build and operate web sites, Trump did neither, he seemed to get free air time on the news everyday, he didn't need to run ads. But, how else to get your word out that you're a candidate for whatever office, and the bigger question is, who is qualified to lead? Look what we have now as a leader. He tapped into angry Americans.

    Rand Paul assaulted over the weekend in his home town. Maybe lawmakers should be on watch when they return to their homes, especially since most are pissing off the very people who elected them. How many voters and how much time does it take to send a message to lawmakers that they're dissatisfied?

  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Dutch Wrote:

    Yes Dock; that is what you get if you stick to antique 1800's laws; an corrupt election systems and not "vetting" candidates etc. only tricks and lies.

    Can't they do anything WITHOUT money involved in this country; like elections.

    It does not seem such complex system in other civilized countries where they have an parlimentary system which works without billions of money to elect qualified people. The stupidity here is to stick to an old British system and tamper with it; that is why you need an zillion lawyers to "manipulate" and "explain" the laws here. Nothing is straightforward.

    "MONEY CORRUPTS"

    At least you can return to the EU Dutch! We’re stuck here.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Dutch Wrote:

    Right now we have the biggest mess we ever had in this country. Looking at all the missteps in politics and human life it can't be worse.

    1) The Mueller investigation

    2) The mental patient in the White House

    3) Racism pops up its ugly head

    4) Ultra right fanatism

    5) An Republican government running of the cliff

    6) Democrats who are infighting and not organized

    7) The Donna Brazil ; Clinton money grabbing story does not help the Dem's either.

    8) Bullying N. Korea

    9) Billionaires influence and corrupting the country ( like the Mercers)

    10) Fake news; even the Russians have Facebook, Twitter, Google power/influence

    11) Corrupt elections because of super PAC's and lots of "money" and corruption all over.

    12) People in positions where they should not be, like: Pruitt, Carson, Kelly, Pence, Sessions, Miller, Tillerson, as well electing cowboys with six shooters who believe God caused 9/11 as well plenty of other weirdo's who are popping up all over under Trump's reign.

    13) No longer accepting world wide agreements, like Climate, nuclear, trade ( Nafta and others)

    14) Religious fanatics getting their way with this government.

    I'm forgetting a lot of points, but this country is going down the drain in a hurry

    Add sex with minors, and lying republicans to the list.

    We're goin' down like Sonny Liston.

  • Independent
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    Kevin Phillips covered much of the problem way back when with "American Theocracy". The dominant powers of the UK, the Dutch and the Spanish all collapsed or declined due to a host of things including financialization. We are simply walking the same path. When we add in the very real problem of the blurring of distinction between war/not war as shown in Rosa Brooks' "How Everything Became War and the Military Became Everything: Tales from the Pentagon" and the end result is shifting political tectonics. The move in the EU to defense outside of NATO may play to Trump's idiotic "America First" posturing but it also shows that Europe will become a pole in a multi-polar geopolitical landscape where US power is diminished including the US economy.

    I give the US 50-100 years before we become what the UK is now. Of course as the UK will likely break up during that time it might be possible that the US will cease to exist as a country and instead become several smaller countries. Which might actually be for the best.